Originally Posted by
Aero1900
Dude.... come on. You are welcome to point out that our rates are below industry standard, but you shouldn't make up total BS. If you credit 120 hours here, you will make way more money than industry standard. At 245 an hour, crediting 120 is over $32,000 a month. If you are arguing you have to fly that much to make the same as other airlines where pilots average 77 hours, that would be $415 an hour. Last time I check United doesn't pay Airbus pilots 414 an hour.
Let's please discuss facts based in reality. Let's try some real math
Top of scale United Airbus captains make 261 or 272 depending on 319 or 320. Our new rates as of March will be 245.
United A320: 272×75= 20,400.
Frontier A320: 245×75= 18,400.
A frontier pilot must credit an additional 8 hours, not the additional 55 hours you claimed.
Can we please try to have a discussion based in reality?
Originally Posted by
Aero1900
Right. Your math is correct and I thank you for that. I was responding to a post that claimed you'd have to credit 130 hours to get close to industry standard pay and I was refuting that because it's so ridiculous.
If we vote this in, and I'm not arguing one way or another, we will be compensated less than United pilots. No question. What I was trying to show is an accurate comparison. The post I was responding to was looking at it from the point of how much more you'd have to credit to achieve the same compensation.
I think you misunderstood his post. I think he is talking about over the course of a year, and what it would take to adjust our hourly rate to match. While he exaggerated, you under bid. I'm going to run two scenarios one a 12+ year Captain with 4 vacation periods, and the other a 4 year FO with 2 vacation periods. It also states on this site that United will be getting a 4% raise as of 1/1/2019 that puts their respective rates 282.88 and 168.48, our proposed at 244.68 and 122.10
United @ guarantee
12*70*CA = 237,619
12*70*FO = 141,523
United @ more realistic 76hrs
12*76*CA = 257,986
12*76*FO = 153,653
For us to match UA @ 70hrs
237,619 / 244.68 / 12 = 80.9hrs UA +11
141,523 / 122.10 / 12 = 96.6 UA +26 <edit 96-70 = 26 not 16 lol
For us to match UA @ 76hrs
257,986 / 244.68 / 12 = 87.9 UA +12
153,653 / 122.10 / 12 = 104.9 UA +29
Now to take it a step further, let's just use UA @ 70hrs to make it even more conservative and favoring of our proposal. CA's have to credit an average of 10.9 hours every month to equal UA pay, so if they worked our guarantee of 75hrs, what would they have to do in each vacation month?
237,619 / 244.68 = 971.1 total yearly credit hours
971.1 - (75*8 non vacation months) = 371.1 hours to fly in vacation months
371.1 / 4 = 92.8 hrs = about 90.5 + our 1.25%
The story gets worse for FO's especially comparing it to a UA FO @ 76hrs
153,653 / 122.1 = 1258.4 total yearly credit hours
1258.4 - (75*10) = 508.4
508.4 / 2 = 254.2 hrs = 220 hrs with our 1.25%
Bump our FO up to 81 since UA is at 76 and it looks like
1258.4 - 810 = 448.4
448.4 / 2 = 196 hrs with our 1.25%
SOOOO....130 hrs credit in vacation months to compare ourselves to United is not far fetched depending on your seat, amount of vacation periods you have, and how many hours worked you are comparing.
Since you are using math, I figured we'd use it correctly.