Originally Posted by
dawgdriver
Fewer retirements have ensured long upgrade times at WN but there was always ample income opportunity with premium open time. Is it true that senior guys are now slugging it out over straight pay due to over-staffing(?) Very unlike the lean old Southwest Trailways to overstaff and I'm hearing the hiring isn't slowing down in 2019. Temporary or is WN permanently moving to a traditional staffing model with more reserves? Ramping up for HI? Hoarding the dwindling number of pilots left out there? What is your management and/or union saying about conditions going forward?
SW is a great brand and stable place to work with its strong domestic focus and balance sheet but it's outgrown it's folksy-fun culture with size and corporate feel and like others, it's a job, and a demanding one from what I hear. Without the income potential to make up the ~$30/hour difference from legacy FO pay (years 1-4), I'm curious as to what SWA HR feels makes them competitive to the dwindling pool of candidates(?).
Flow through programs, wide bodies and quick upgrades ensure legacies are getting the lion share of regional guys, and what's left (ever-dwindling military/corporate) are lured by what appears ON PAPER to be better pay offered at Legacies and Freight. Even second tier ULCCs are offering ballpark compensation with better equipment, quicker upgrades, home every night, etc.
Again, the variable being income opportunity, just wondering whether WN management realizes they're no longer seen as the mid 2000's destination of choice and are trying to get what they can before word gets out.
No flame, honest questions.
Dawg,
Ive been at SWA almost 7 years and here is my take on your questions.
1) It is true that on the F/O side we are currently overstaffed and yes most of the open time has been going out at straight pay. However, if you live in domicile you can sit reserve at home and have a high probability of not being used that much. That is how I have been crediting an average of 155 TFP per month all year long. I think this is a temporary situation on the F/O overstaffing -- Hawaii ops coming online, maybe redeye flying, and I suspect some more domestic city pairs to be announced in 2019 as well maybe some increased near-international destinations. Also, according to my CP they are doing 600 Captain upgrades next year so that should smooth out some of the F/O overmanning, even though we are hiring 550 next year -- with ~150 retirements, increased vacation, and an uptick in sick calls you will see a net gain of Captains and net decrease of F/Os next year.
2) Your statement about the $30 per hour differential between SWA and Legacy is not an apples to apples comparison. Anyone that is just looking at the $ differential needs to sit down and talk with real pilots at each of the airlines. Work rules and rigs trump pay rates every day and SWA has good duty rigs that make the trips productive. Have to look at the whole picture. Each airline has their pros and cons. Here is the required one pilot data point for the APC d$ck measuring contest.
Me -- 7 year pay scale F/O, living in domicile, working smart-not hard, in 2018 my total compensation will be $345,000. (This includes the sum of TFP pay, 14.2% B-fund, estimated 10% profits sharing)
You ask what makes HR feel they are competitive -- well they are having no problem getting people to come to interviews and attrition to other airlines is WAY down from the 2015/2016 time frame.
Also, it has been my experience that every military pilot and civilian RJ pilot apples to multiple major carriers and will generally go with the first major airline that hires them. The number of pilots that end up with near simultaneous job offers from 2 or more majors is a small percentage of the pilot pool. Furthermore, a smart pilot looking at the whole picture will also take into account the financial strength of the company and Southwest is not lacking in that arena -- good thing to consider for the next recession that WILL happen at some point.
3) To each their own but SWA still is a very attractive destination for most pilots -- 11 domiciles to choose from and good trip flexibility working for a company that has never furloughed and has the best financials in the industry plus more growth on the horizon.
4) Bottom line: There is not a single major airline where you won't make great money -- Delta, American, United, Southwest, Alaska, JetBlue, FedEx, UPS. Money should be the least of your worries at any of the above airlines. Life is short -- focus on Quality of Life and you can maximize that by picking a domicile to live in and then living within your means, keep your first wife, surround yourself with a group of good friends and family and enjoy life. Cheers!