Originally Posted by aa73

Arado, that was bad piloting technique on both events and you know it. Please don’t associate crappy piloting with the airplane. Might as well blame AF447 on the airplane too then.

FlyDubai crash required the pilots to FLY the airplane since TOGA is always a manual go around. They got disoriented, plain and simple. I’ve done plenty of those in crap weather and while it’s a handful, it’s nothing we don’t practice in the sim every 9 months.

Lion Air was basically unreliable airspeed/AOA with runaway trim... the right course of action would be to to disable the AP and regular trim using the cutout switches. In fact the prior crew in the prior flight did just that when they encountered the same situation. Yes it was also a crap situation but not unrecoverable.

Bottom line, both fleets have had plenty of crashes that could have been prevented with good piloting and/or CRM, and not due to airplane design.

Speaking of trim and AF447, a major contributor to the crash was the fact that the auto trim ended up trimming the THS full nose up, and would have required at least 30 seconds of full nose down side stick to undo the out of trim situation. Not exactly confidence-inspiring on the part of Airbus...

Oh, btw. I just flew our newest Max last night. Speed trim worked great, gave us a nice smooth flight. It kicked in plenty. Nice quiet cockpit too. ;-)