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Old 02-03-2019, 07:41 AM
  #101  
Climbto450
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
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Originally Posted by The701Express View Post
A few thoughts on the financial aspect of the Frontier vs. JetBlue decision:

Frontier is privately owned by Indigo Capital, meaning there is much less transparency into their finances than a publicly held company, like JetBlue.

This isn't as impactful as other factors such as CBA, bases, and aircraft orders, but I feel it is an issue that underlies them and can have long term consequences, making it worth some consideration.

From a few financial tidbits we've seen throughout Indigo's ownership of Frontier, they seem to be doing a good job of turning the airline around, cutting costs, increasing revenue, and driving up profitability. The latest data I can find with a quick google search is from a 2017 SEC filing when they were considering an IPO, with the last full year data for 2016.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...d366312ds1.htm

Since Indigo balked at that IPO, it raises some questions in my mind about their thought process and motivation behind those decisions. It's completely possible and plausible that Indigo is making so much money right now that they don't have much incentive to IPO.

While that would be welcome news for someone desiring a financially secure airline to make a career at, the lack of transparency into the sources of that revenue make me suspicious. Is that revenue coming from passenger revenue? Ancillary fees charged to those passengers? A Frequent Flyer or credit card program? Or is there some other source of revenue?

From casual lurking on this website and talking with a few friends at Frontier, I've heard about their practice of leasing back airframes upon delivery that were originally purchased. I'm not familiar with the frequency or scope of this practice at Frontier, but if it is happening and is boosting revenue at Frontier, that seems like prioritizing short term profits over long term sustainability, which for someone looking to make a long term career decision could carry consequences later on.

Perhaps Indigo just felt the market wasn't in a good position for an IPO and decided to hold off for external factors, unrelated to the financial performance of the airline. I don't know and I'm guessing few outside of Indigo know either, but it's an important question to ponder.

I don't have all of the answers to these questions. I'm not in the OP's position, so I haven't done nearly the amount of research I would, were I needing to make this decision. But given the fickle nature of ULCC growth, opening routes to probe a market and abandoning them if profits don't follow soon, would give me pause when considering the long term viability of a base, especially a new one like PHL, that is also a legacy fortress hub. Combine that with Indigo's hesitation to IPO, and I see several possible risks involved with choosing Frontier.

The lack of transparency into the financial health and dynamics of Frontier makes an informed decision more difficult in comparison to JetBlue.

JetBlue has its faults, which have been duly noted on this thread and forum overall. One of the greatest strengths JetBlue does have is its strong balance sheet, with low debt levels, ownership of numerous assets, etc. The operation is a mess, but that mess and taking advantage of years of low oil prices has produced a lot of value for the company, which with some exceptions, has been invested in a pretty smart fashion from a financial perspective. Many on here are right in their anger that the company invests so much into sideshows like Tech Venture and Travel Products, and I'm right there with them. I'd prefer to see greater investments directly into the employees and operation to increase morale, incentivize efficiency, and improve reliability. Despite all that, these major investments in aircraft, real estate, and subsidiaries signal a commitment by the JetBlue BOD and management to playing the long game. How confident are you, given the information available, in Frontier and Indigo's long term commitment?

I tried my best to keep any speculation and judgment out of raising these issues. It's hard to look at these different issues from a completely neutral position, but I hope I gave you a few new questions to find your own answers to when making this decision, OP.

Good luck solving the risk vs. reward equation and finding a career path that works for you and your family.
Spot on assessment. One more note from a line pilot at JB. I have flown with a hand full of recently hired (last couple of years) FOs from Frontier. I don’t know of anyone who has left JB to go to Frontier. Just food for thought..
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