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Old 02-19-2019, 06:42 AM
  #27  
tikicarver
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Joined APC: Jun 2012
Position: FTE
Posts: 194
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Originally Posted by swingear View Post
As the lone IRO on an augmented flight, yes you absolutely must be qualified to relieve both pilots. As one of two IRO's on a heavy crew flight (which is what he's talking about), I'd disagree. You only need to be able to relieve who you're going to relieve. It's just about making sure nobody is at the controls for more than 8. So just pick a seat and try not to touch any dusty switches.

If you actually read the FOTM, the right seat qual is satisfied just by flying seat support for another PIC in the sim. So it's entirely dependent on the sim pairing whether or not you actually have to land from the right seat. This individual was probably paired with an FO on his initial type course, as many folks here were, but since there are a lot more CA's than FO's right now, he probably wasn't for recurrent. Hence the program being different. It's kinda funny that everyone is getting all hyped up over a CA flying right seat, but nobody mentions that there is no specific left seat qual in our FOTM, yet you have FO IRO's flying left seat. Now, you take your type from the left seat, but it isn't part of the recurrent program. I must say, it is pretty tricky running the radios with my other hand. Thrills, chills, and narrow escapes, I tell ya.

As to why they don't deadhead a crew down and have them operate back, you might want to check part 121 Supplemental Flight and Duty rules and the CBA. They're vastly different for a Heavy Crew vs two separate two man crews. They tried that. Doesn't work. It provides no benefit (duty-wise) over a two-man crew.
yes , you need to be qualified to relieve who you are going to relieve, that is the point, if 1st IRO who is right seat qualified relieves CA, then FO can not be relieved. And if next time there are 2 CAs that are not right seat current , flight is illegal. Your FOTM may say they become current if they sit in right seat in recurrent, but if they dont do that as a part of the planned training and just rely on chance that pilots go with another CA, guess what is going to happen?

Also, Boeing does not have a Type rating course for FOs, when you get your Type at Boeing its as a CA regardless of what you are at your Company. So for a year after initial, all FOs are left seat current and can fly as IRO. If they don't do left seat checkout in recurrent , they are not current to fly as IRO. This is nothing new, all the majors who have IRO biddable positions would send their IROs to sim every year for left seat checkout before the 1500 hr rule (back in the day FOs didn't get typed in initial)
It does not matter if it is not in your FOTM, it is in the FARs, you need to be qualified and current in the position you fly.

in supplemental ops
3 pilot crew is good for 12 aloft and 18 of duty,
4 pilot crew is good for 16 aloft and 20 duty
so there is an advantage to using a 4 pilot crew
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