I’m not going to put a definition down of a “dead zoner”. That lesson was learned a while back from this board. What I can say, just observing from ATL 717B flying with sen 10K down to about 2K.... depending on the day and trip... every ATL 717A has stated they are a “dead zoner” ranging in age from 40 to 64+, and hire date 1990 to 2014. I’ve started to just watch and listen for their version of “mistakes” and not make them. Age 65 seems to be a helping hand to some, while others view it as a sentencing.

The “sentencing” seems to be from RJ guys who had to STAY for another 5 years. Yea, did it too.... but some must take a whole hour long leg to tell me their side. And when I say “I get it, spent a decade at a regional”.. without fail, been told that I don’t understand a struggle. So that’s fun. Then told I should be happy I never had health issues. Yea, cancer seems FUN in your world.

My last trip (ending yesterday) was a guy who snagged the trip as a 4-day GS. The trip sucked, should have swapped or dropped it, but I planned to work New Years since being home would have been a 9pm bedtime anyway with a little one. Wife said working would be better as a sacrifice of days around xmas. Long days, short nights, simply work. Fine. That’s the mindset.

I was told that a dead zoner is anyone who lost a retirement promise. Ok, I’ll play. I was told a mainline job would be waiting for me 3 years after I started at a regional. Reality was a decade later. I saw, by 2008, many remaining private sector pensions were gone. It’s easy to see Wall Street applauds this fact, working families hate this, life insurance companies want to capitalize into annuities-they win. Everyone other than the employee wins. Why? Who owns the account. Just adding to the knowledge base.

He asked me of my thoughts on a retirement promise. I explained that I was a junior in HS when 9/11 happened, I saw pensions evaporate and wanted all money in my name and have utilized every possible roth option since age 18. Money in my name, under my management (or control), without a single “promise” in funding. This zoomy informed me I was wrong.

So, by second hand to forum, a dead zoner is anyone who was hired with a promised retirement that has now been changed, deems themselves “identifying” as a dead zoner. I’m literally flying with early 40’s to 64+ in age and 1990 to about 2014 in DOH, 99% are good folks.

Reality is that the definition of “dead zoner” actually is anyone who started a job at Delta, with a retirement expectation on day 1, that hasn’t been matched. Literally a “swing and miss”. The issue here isn’t about “bringing the future to life” or “bringing back the past”.

Each contract has been a parlay to a pension. Yes, we currently get 16%. Name anyone else that gets that- no match, no fuss, just 16%. We can cry poor all day long, but do you know a non DL pilot getting 16% every paycheck into a 401k by default? I am NOT saying negotiations are done as is or otherwise.

I should make as much on a 7 day vacation as the min for a full week of work. Like day 6 and looking at a 168max. 5:15x6
In the sim, I should be making at least what I make flying a full day (when everyone keeps trying to kill me) 5:15x 2
I have 30 hours in XYZ because marketing tells me so.... ok, cool. Pay me. I’m literally staying here as a hostage for no pay as the other days pure block equal this credit. Hello MIN DAY. 5:15 per day avg/per day abv.

Ex. 4 day trip- day 1 is 6 hr blk/6cr. Day 2 7blk/7cr. Day 3 0blk/ 0 cr. Day 4/ 8blk/8cr. Currently you flew 21/21credit. Min day would show 21 block still.... and 26:15 credit. Leg:leg pay guarantee, far 117, min day @ 5:15 or better. I’d love to see a 5:15/5:30/5:35/6:00 movement. A day of work is a day at work. Currently training means nothing, vacation is a joke, and a long layover is a non-paid free vacation for a day. OR just a day when you stay away from home for FREE.

We can try and define the “dead zone” until every pilot who signed the last contract retired. But in the end we won’t, for the basic premise of any contract.

You never sign a contract for those not on the premises, and you never sign one for those who have left. ALPA is only about current dues paying members. Those already hired, and those simply required. Those retired are simple admired and those to be hired are simply the next targets to acquire.