Originally Posted by
Tuck
The MEC has never pointed out three distinct AMOCs - I think you mis read the communications. They have merely given ideas, and these are really just wishes, of possible AMOCs. No one on the MEC has any idea of whether they could get an AMOC or not. Don't trust me - ask them. AMOCs are proprietary and the other MECs don't own them - they are a deviation from an airline - not from the MEC and the airline owns them. That's why the MEC doesn't really know of any or how exactly to get them. ALPA does not apply for deviations as there are no restrictions or rules on ALPA.
Actually, they did in fact point out the three specific examples in a document that was attached to one of their blast mails. Here is an excerpt of it:
“The AMOC would need to meet or exceed the safety standards set forth by the prescriptive limitations.
Existing carriers operating under FAR 117 have applied the FRMS approach and have received AMOCs to exceed the flight time and flight duty period (FDP) limits to operate ultra-long range (ULR) flights, modify the requirements for a Class 1 rest facility, as well as, modify the placement of prescriptive rest on augmented flights. In each of these cases the carrier proposes to the FAA an AMOC and data collection plan to show the desired operation under the AMOC can be flown as safe or safer than the current prescriptive limitations of FAR 117. This is achieved by adding mitigations to address fatigue such as increasing the required rest prior to, during, and after a pairing sequence, requiring 2 captains on augmented flights and having more stringent fit for duty (FFD) verifications prior to each flight under the AMOC.”
There are more than mere examples. And they aren’t necessarily wishes as these don’t seem to even address the company’s biggest concern, more than 3 consecutive night hub turns. They were clearly mentioned to show that AMOCs are not a unicorn. And of course no one could event promise an AMOC. That wasn’t the point of me mentioning it. I merely answered the question that was asked. Sure, ALPA doesn’t apply for AMOCs. That process is part of 117s specific FRMS requirements that ALPA does have been a part of. AMOCs are driven by actual data. That data is proprietary and would only apply to that specific airline. But knowledge of other airlines’ having AMOCs for certain things is not proprietary.
Originally Posted by
TallFlyer
I’ve read it before and now I just read it again.
I stand by what I said, 110%. No one can compel either pilot to extend beyond 30 minutes. I worked under 117 for many years. They cannot ever force you to go beyond the 30 minute extension. But of course they may want to know the circumstances. That doesn’t change in 117 versus 121.