Originally Posted by
JetJock16
Guys this isn’t hard, just because XJT has a good contract and their represented doesn’t mean their not being hypocrites when they come on here and tell us we’re think about us and only us. Life at its most basic element is personally driven. You guys are on here bashing us for voting on what we feel is best for us and our future but in the end that’s what we all do and that's why I said "what hypocrites." Spin it how you will, that you’re always think about the industry but that’s just flaming. You believe whatever helps you sleep at night and we’ll do the same but get over it.
Yes this pay proposal is weak but when you sit down and calculate all of our bonuses and not having to pay 1.95% (yes it's deductible so enjoy your $100 at the end of the year) this proposal ends up being ASA plus 4-12% dependent on you year and seat. But because we have a lot of soft pay you guys don’t see it and you continue to wine and moan.
I voted YES for ALPA, as did many of my brethren, because I thought that it was best for me and my future. Others felt different, hey that’s they’re opinion and now I’m forced to deal with my groups decision but don’t bash us for making our decisions based upon what right for us, our futures and our company. You guys do the exact same.
I'm not making excuses for my brethren voting down ALPA but even though I disagree I still respect them and I always well, just as I respect all of you. BTW, stop assuming that because the ALPA drive failed that we all voted no.
Its not being a hypocrite to come on here and tell you what we think. If anything is more of a "I told you so."
Its just that some think Skywest pilots made a mistake and now its showing. Sure everyone makes decisions on whats best for them and some of those people also think that Skywest in making a decision on whats best for them, think it was the wrong decision (this happens at union cariers as well when a vote on a TA or LOA comes up, everyone has their opinions and it doesn't mean that anyone is a hypcrite). A decision that affects the industry whether they admit it of not. I don't think that is being hypocritical. Its just an opinion that people think Skywest made a mistake. I'm sure everything will work out but Skywest pilots will not get as much as they deserve and thus continue to "ride the coat tails," for lack of a better phrase.
You guys deserve so much better than ASA+4-12% or whatever your calculations are without the ALPA dues. And that is my point. Skywest is relegated to settle for parity rather than going for XJT+3%, for example and thus setting the bar higher.
You guys should get the respect you deserve and its too bad that some don't give it to you. But like I said, and I'm not making excuses either, there is a lot of animosity for Skywest because people think they made the wrong decision and it affects us all.
By the way, ALPA and its 1.95% that goes along with it, is so much MORE than just having bargaining power to help increase pay. So its not an apples to apples comparison anyways.
Oh, and I don't assume everyone voted against ALPA. I assume its about 65% that voted against ALPA.
Originally Posted by
ladder14
Last time I checked Skyway has ALPA and how much has ALPA helped them now. One of the most stressful things in a person's life is finding a new job. So I guess the good thing to do if you are a Skyway guy is not apply at Skywest since we do not have ALPA representation. We can't protect you at Skywest like ALPA protected you at Skyway with your job. Last time I checked Comair has ALPA as well, and last time I checked in March they took a major pay reduction. Skywest is at least getting a pay increase and I can guarantee they will never go out of business and will never furlough anyone. I welcome all Skyway guys to apply and get a job at Skywest and you can see firsthand what a good company is and how you will be treated here.
ALPA does not run any airline. ALPA cannot guarantee that there will never be any furloughs. ALPA cannot guarantee that the airline will never go out of buisness. That is not the job of ALPA. That is the job of management. ALPA cannot do anything about inept management (Im not saying Skyway has inept management because I don't work there and thus dont know), bankruptcy, or another terrorist attack. But I can assure you ALPA will not be able to do anything for Skywest pilots if they fire, furlough, liquidate, or otherwise stop employing you. ALPA does help those people at other ALPA carriers get jobs at other ALPA carriers. For example, when IndyAir went out of business, ALPA convinced XJT to give preferential hiring to IndyAir guys. And now we have a ton of them here. We are in the process of doing the same for Astar and Im sure Skyway is not to far behind as well.
Its not about just pay rates increasing. Skywest is arguably thee most profitable regional. Then why are you settling for nothing less then thee highest pay rates?
Originally Posted by
rickair7777
Total Garbage, it sure happened at my last ALPA carrier, much worse than at SKW.
MEC's are always old guys (just like SAPA) and tend to be biased towards the old-guy point-of-view. Just human nature in action, not unique to SAPA or ALPA.
This is particularly true at the regionals, where the FO's are young, inexperienced, and mostly worried about their iPod and getting laid on Friday.
ALPA is not a magical, mythical, holy institution. It's just an organization, subject to all of the usual failings of human endevours everywhere. It has an advantage in collective bargaining, but that's about it.
Let's summarize...you say ALPA does NOT bias towards the old guys: Two words for you pal...
1) Prater
2) Age 65
Q.E.D
Your reps were democratically elected and can be recalled or not voted in on the next election. They also have emails and phone numbers for you to call them and tell them how you feel about a certain issue. Did you ever vote? Did you ever email your rep? Did you ever call your rep? Did you ever attend you local council meeting? Did you ever voice your opinion at the local council meeting? Did you ever attend an MEC meeting? Did you ever voice your opinion at the MEC meeting? Did you ever volunteer? Did you ever run for a rep position? Did you subscribe to all the blastmails?
My MEC is NOT a bunch of old guys. And its probably not as much as you think at other MECs in the regional industry. In any case, like I said, everyone can tell them how they feel.
My MEC, for example, tends to look at what is best for our pilots as a whole and not just a certain demographic. It understands that pitting one demographic against another is not conducive to unity. And sure, no matter what they do, not everyone will be happy. Its just a matter of electing the right people and getting the wrong people out at the next election or recalling them.
You are right about ALPA not being "a magical, mythical, holy institution. It's just an organization, subject to all of the usual failings of human endevours everywhere." But it is a whole lot more than having bargaining power! But even if that was it, it sure would help you to have that power right about now.
By the way, Im 33 and favored changing the age 60 rule. It was inevitable. So even if you were against it, it was advantageous for ALPA to change its policy on age 60 in order to mitigate its effects when legislation was being written. I think ALPA was very successful in that regard.