I don't know why we even continue to discuss the subject. At the end of the day if the company needs to furlough, and it makes more monetary sense to them, then they will furlough. Right now if we saved cash by lowering our ALV, how much of that money would be negated by the 65 hour discretionary leave program that the company has instituted for self declared high risk employees? JS our head honcho for HR has said on a couple of occasions that she is putting together some early retirement programs for the other groups. That takes money that we don't have right now but would have to be funded from somewhere. I'm all for helping the company make it through this. We need the company to survive and thrive but right now it seems that the head shed is just trying to make a point about unionism versus how well the Delta family works for you. Let's not give up stuff that takes us a decade and a half to claw back and since the company really hasn't come back to us with the ALV request since the last time let's let them figure out what they really need and submit it through out union.