Originally Posted by
Noworkallplay
So explain to a new guy why he should negotiate an increase to the current FAE or years of service on the legacy plan when the older group failed for 20+ years to do anything about it. It sounds to me like a bunch of guys with less than 10 years left want the rest of the group to prop them up out the door when they failed to hold the line for 20+ years on a pension increase. Why is that on all the new guys to fix?
Not being snarky just asking honest questions. Why would we not want to negotiate something that is self growing and doesn't have to be negotiated for a big increase every contract to keep up with inflation. Why would we not want to look at something that sustains itself over time?
That same group on the way out is flying exceptionally high amounts of draft. Are they willing to do anything to help their cause or do they want everyone else to sacrifice for them? Im sorry but im not going to stand by while they fly every bit of draft they can get and then prop them up on the way out the door.
The current pension formula is obviously very expensive to increase from a liabilities standpoint. Why do we want a small bump every 20 years? Why not look at something that is more self stabilizing? To me we have a very clear divide. We have the group with less than 10 years left that want fixed what they did not stand up for the past 20 years.
Just because it wasn’t possible in the past does not mean it’s not possible in the future. It all depends on the circumstances present during each contract cycle. That includes a different demographic of pilots when each contract is ratified.
Also, I don’t necessarily see a difference in interests between pilots who supposedly only have 10 years left versus those who have more. Any retirement improvement for those pilots will also help all the other ones.
Lastly, I don’t begrudge anyone flying draft. It’s contractual and therefore I believe you should have no problem with them working it anymore than any pilot exercising any other contractual right while also flying draft.
Originally Posted by
Noworkallplay
I highly doubt much capital was spent to pay us 4K a month in training and be around legacy industry bottom for first year pay. Plus we have no hotel paid for like other majors. Not a gripe, but get real on spending capital. I’m sure the company gladly agreed to those terms.
You didn’t have the opportunity to F us last contract infact just the opposite. The company offered us a substantial B only plan at 20% + uncapped. For younger pilots with time value of money that’s a winner over a 30 + year frozen A plan. The reason it was not looked at was it would have divided the group and it doesn’t help the older group. So if anything turning it down screwed the younger group.
I have been told the stories of the pilot groups attitude and actions as a whole when it comes to draft during negotiations. The group as a whole didn’t hold the line then and they won’t do it again. A few will always try but 70% of this group won’t blink an eye and continuing slopping from the trough of draft. Heck they fight over it at straight pay with OTP/PNP in normal times.
Im not trying to be snarky just very clearly don’t agree with your points.
I know you continually say you are not trying to be snarky. Maybe it’s because you know that you are? But I’ll tell you, it feels like you are trying to be snarky.
With that said, you weren’t here during the last contract cycle. You are only going off of here say. Why not just listen and observe a contract cycle before taking everything as gospel? Let’s not judge our pilots by war stories, gripes, and grievances we hear on the line. There are always two sides to a story. Besides, about a quarter of the pilots who voted on the last contract are probably gone with another quarter probably gone before the next ratification vote. This next vote will be comprised by a totally different demographic of pilots.