Originally Posted by
rickair7777
The culture was plenty just for a long time. But the stuff we do is terribly unforgiving and at some point there has to be accountability.
"Just Culture" in airline aviation does not actually mean infinite, unlimited get out of jail free cards in all circumstances.
I WAS there, it was plenty just, they informed, educated, begged, and pleaded and it kept happening over and over again.
The straw that broke the camel's back: crew in a high altitude hold let AS decay through inattention over about a ten minute period, stalled and dropped about 20,000 through a loaded holding stack.
Again, if we are talking about the same pilots making the same mistakes, then I completely agree. I simply disagree with the FAA not letting anyone into the program for a specific type of event. That doesn’t help anyone. If this was happening to different pilots through a period of time, it’s more indicative to management’s culture at the airline than anything else. It sounds like they unjustly targeted one group, the pilots, when they should’ve targeted management to get to the root cause. Otherwise you get situations where you have a crew get into a UAS (not necessarily actually stall) yet not report it. And voila, the incidents have magically declined.