Originally Posted by
stinkbug
Here’s an argument:
1) If you believe in the efficacy of the vaccine than you shouldn’t feel threatened by an unvaccinated person. If you still do, then your argument for the vaccine is off to a shaky start.
2) Many of the unvaccinated have already had COVID and therefore have the ability to mount an immune response comparable to, if not more effectively than, the vaccine.
3) There is plenty of evidence that this vaccine carries with it some risk of various side effects. Especially for people who have already recovered from the virus, what incentive is there to take on that risk?
4) There is also mounting evidence that these vaccines aren’t quite the miracle they have been touted to be. If the vaccinated are still catching and spreading this thing (and they are), then the whole “get the jab for your fellow man” kinda falls apart.
5) In light of the gaslighting, censorship, and mixed messaging surrounding COVID and these vaccines (and just about everything else lately), I’m amazed at how readily so many people have jumped on onboard with forced vaccination. And if you say that no one is being forced, then you are yourself guilty of gaslighting. When faced with the choice between not getting the vaccine, and being able to continue putting food on the table or even just function normally in society, that is effectively a forced vaccination.
Thanks for dropping that Holocaust stuff. I’ll address your thoughts:
- This is a little like saying “if you believe seat belts work, you shouldn’t feel threatened by a drunk driver.” I believe the vaccine is as effective as science proves it to be, which is very effective against original COVID 19, and fairly effective against the Delta variant. In neither case 100%. I do not feel personally threatened by the unvaccinated, but I do believe they pose certain threats to society- clogging up hospitals is a big one, as hospital capacity statistically has a huge impact on the mortality rate that the anti-vax crowd is so fond of touting. 99.x% survival? Not when hospitals are full & treatment is unavailable.
- I don’t know of any studies suggesting natural immunity is better than vaccine based immunity- I think you’re making that up. There are studies suggesting that the vaccine can provide a significant boost in naturally derived immunity, though, so vaccinating the recovered is not totally pointless. That population is of generally lesser concern to me, although I do believe there are many “recovered” individuals who are either assuming without proof that the cold they had last February was COVID, or just flat-out lying.
- I think increased risk of severe side effects from recovered individuals is anecdotal. Not aware of any actual studies suggesting otherwise. Severe side-effects to the vaccine are very rare- far rarer than a severe COVID reaction. Again, vaccinating the recovered is not my battle so much, but there is science to suggest it is effective.
- I think the “mounting evidence” you’re referring to is the fact that as new variants emerge, some (like Delta) are proving to be more resilient to the vaccine than the original strain. If you were paying attention, experts have been predicting this from the start. The presence of such strains in no way invalidates the importance of vaccination. In fact, the solution will most likely be a targeted booster.
- There is an intelligent discussion to be had on this topic (and you’re definitely getting closer now than you were with all that Nazi stuff), but I still don’t really see it happening here. I’m generally cautious on the idea of government-mandated medical procedures. On the other hand, vaccine requirements for school, border entries, etc. are pretty well established. If the airline wants to be able to provide an assurance of safety to its passengers- as well as be a global competitor in markets like Asia that have different regulations & cultural views on infectious disease, what actions are reasonable to require of its employees? The answer is not as simple as just saying “personal liberty”. I agree, the loss of your job would be a huge price to pay for your exercising of said liberty, but outside of legitimate religious objections, you’d have a really hard time arguing your UAL seniority is protected by the constitution- especially while pilots are being hired in droves into companies (for now, at least) without vaccination requirements. Somebody’s gonna challenge this, but I think legally it will hold up. My advice to anyone struggling with this- don’t die on this hill. It’s safe & effective. Tucker, Sean, & the Donald all got it (Donald got it even after recovering from COVID) while telling you it’s a health risk & the greatest threat to your personal freedom. Don’t lose your job & livelihood over the lies they are taking to the bank for more than you could ever hope to see from your entire aviation career.