Originally Posted by BeatNavy

They are making $275/hr. And there are only 10 pilots still at jetblue hired in 1999. 78 from ‘00, and 105 from ‘02.

But to your point…it was never anywhere close to $275/hr under Neeleman. Even in his last years at the company. Nor was it anywhere close under his successor. It took almost 2 decades and 3 union drives to get there.

Also, look at the equipment and business model…190s and 220s/ULCC. Breeze will always (until their biz model and equipment change) be slotted between a regional and ULCC. The Breeze business model is largely predicated on ultra low costs. What Neeleman figured out (which isn’t rocket surgery), is that if regionals can attract new pilots for $30k-$50k a year and keep them for 3-5 years, which they have been doing since their inception, he can for sure hire pilots for $55k a year on bigger equipment, keep them for 3-5 years until they start getting more expensive (from a pay/longevity standpoint, as well as vacation/sick time accrual, medical costs as they age, etc.). There’s a point at which hanging on to an experienced employee costs more than training fresh meat on year 1 pay. That point happens to be generally around the point at which pilots are traditionally experienced enough to go to majors. Some airlines value pilots with longevity/experience. But from a bean counter and training/licensing standpoint, there is no difference between a 1 year FO and a 7 year FO, or a 3 year CA and 15 year CA—except of course cost. Do you think Trent Porter cares about pilot experience? No. He wants the cheapest labor costs possible. That’s his job. And he’s insanely cheap (charging employees for soda and snacks is all the evidence you need for that).

All Breeze needs to do is ensure they have a stable enough cadre of experienced guys to fill the left seat until they are up and going for a little while and have a steady stream of upgrading FOs and they can then hire their inexperienced newhires. Those original guys may stick around a little while for the hopeful future value of their seniority.

But make no mistake, they will eventually be hiring FOs from the same pool as regionals are…ie CFI/1500 hour types. Maybe a few regional guys will go who have the potential to upgrade faster at Breeze than at their regional. Breeze won’t want experienced guys, or guys who want to spend 15 years there though. They want young, cheap, “I’ll skip the regionals and fly a 220 for $2 more than I could make flying a 175 at a regional” types. They don’t want to be a career destination airline. That gets expensive (see your $269/hr post). Oh, and guys who have an interest in staying longer also will want it to be a good long term career and will organize, get a union, and pressure costs/QOL higher. Can’t have that. Young inexperienced guys who want to get their time and get out won’t be bothered with that union nonsense.

See? Being a cheap, temporary, experience-building job with high attrition is a feature, not a bug. If it works for regionals and they aren’t plowing airplanes into the ground due to inexperience and low pay, then why not take part in the same labor practices that will give that company a competitive edge. Smart, really, from a business standpoint. It can’t be like that right now, because the FAA and Breeze’s insurance requires them as a startup to hire guys with decent amounts of experience, especially for the left seat. So they will continue to promise to make things better in the meantime trying to keep some of those guys around, and continue to float the “once we make money you guys will start making more money” line. But once they are more established, their applicants will largely come from Cessnas, and Breeze will be an entry level airline job.

JetBlue was never a ULCC (did jetblue ever charge employees (or customers) for drinks or snacks?). Breeze isn’t jetblue. Comparing the two is disingenuous and misguided, despite the fact that DN founded both, and they are both blue. Additionally, Neeleman isn’t really running this company. Trent Porter and Lukas Johnson, two of allegiant’s finest, seem to be. They aren’t the “we’ll take care of you” types that DN is. They are penny-pinch-at-all-costs types. Yeah, Neeleman got a lot of JetBlue and Virgin originals as well…but they got some allegiant guys too. And their business model is more akin to allegiant than anything, with some elements (culture) of jetblue, mixed with a regional labor model.

Instead of looking at JetBlue’s top rate fantasizing about where you could be in 20 years if you’re an early entrant to the Breeze seniority list, you should really add SkyWest’s top rate to JetBlue’s top rate and average them. That’s probably about the best case for Breeze pilots (assuming no M&A), imho, with a lot of frustration sprinkled on top. Not bad. But not really a career I’d want. Just remember to bring your own cokes.