Originally Posted by
Smooth at FL450
This.
Lot's of variables to consider, but I think it comes down to this: where do you want to live? Which seniority list would you want to be at the bottom if should the music stop again?
Contract 2020 will see improvements, but no nothing is TA'd yet. I'm sure there is a backup plan being considered given the Max7 issues. The Max8 is VERY fuel efficient and we're converting all 2022 7s into 8s and deliveries are continuing as scheduled, 114 expected this year alone. I'd be surprised if we are still only operating 737s in 30 years given it's at the end of it's production road already. Oh and upgrade just dropped to 8 years and think it'll be down to 7 next year.
A good time to be looking for change! Good luck. SWA is a great job if you live in base, I'm very happy here.
It sounds like SWA is getting a steal on MAX 7 -> MAX 8 conversions from Boeing ... that on top of the initial MAX debacle in 2019. It sounds like, on the current trajectory, that SWA upgrades are probably more in line with the legacies outside of upgrading to a coastal base and being on reserve for years upon years.
I live in Chicago, so Midway (SWA) & O'Hare (UAL) make a lot of sense. However, if my family ever leaves Illinois, we like Southwest's bases as a whole a lot more.
Thank you for the input and perspective -- sounds like a great gig, especially if you have to be on reserve (if you're in base, anyway).
Originally Posted by
Crockrocket95
Between, the SWA/UAL/DAL/ETC threads out there you can gain alot of insight.
Ill do my best to answer some of the stuff.
Compensation-
You can do pretty dang well here. BUT you work for it. Its rare in normal times that someone sits around on reserve, never works and collects money. Weekday reserves are used less but those go senior... on the reserve scale. You can do 120K first year. Its possible. 100K is more realistic number without working 20 days a month. Id plan on 90K if you are a "fly the line" kind of person.
The people that make the large numbers fly or credit a ton. Hustle or know the ways to make money. You can get paid a bunch here without actually doing a ton of flying if you know how to work the system. Or you can grind. Whatever works for you.
Living in base. -
Yeah no brainer there, if you live in a base that ISNT Atlanta you should have a pretty good QOL and be able to make good money. Not much to say.
Contract 2020 -
Its the same story as every airline. Past due. If we can get our rewrite, with our asks, it'll be a really solid gain. A bunch of us are pretty jaded from the last few years and the BS we see in management so we know they can pay and provide what we want, so I don't think we will settle for less. I would be amazed if we had a TA in under 2 years.
The MAX is obviously the craft that SWA has hitched their caboose. Its a decent plane and efficient... I don't see them making a change any time soon.
Love flying with the crews, 95 percent of the inflight is good and as with anywhere, use common sense and the job is easy and stress free. I am a year 3 guy, and Im gonna ride the ship as long as it floats. With hiring and having a semblance of seniority I have no desire to go elsewhere. Now if they would just make Tampa a base!
I appreciate the reply. Whenever I'd fly into TPA with NK, I was surprised Tampa *wasn't* a base for you guys already. It sounds like if the company can negotiate in good faith and get a contract done with SWAPA, SWA could redeem itself as a career destination. It seems like there's a lot to be desired on paper in a line-by-line comparison with United & Delta. I'm really curious to see what United's AIP language looks like as it'll (hopefully) move the bar forward.
I'd be MDW based whenever I could hold it, so ATL isn't on the table.
Year 3 going into Year 4, you're really seeing some major monetary gains, so I don't blame you for leaving in your position.
Originally Posted by
Proximity
The MAX7 debacle is a win for Southwest and the pilot group.
Southwest was able to negotiate an amazing deal on the MAX7, but now since Boeing can't manage to certify the MAX7 I assume when we convert our MAX7 deliveries to MAX8s that deal carries over. Planes are still coming, 114 this year.
I would say that there is a chance that the MAX7 goes away, just as the -600 had a short life. Southwest is really the only customer who ordered the MAX7, and there are three times as many MAX10 orders spread over many airlines, and Boeing might need to focus on that variant. This could be the final push needed to drive the company to order a different aircraft, unless they want to get out of flying 140 seat aircraft. The signs are there, with the company proposing payrates for different aircraft in the contract talks. A new airplane would drive up hiring (training float) and would open up additional opportunities.
I'm just a random internet idiot, but moving away from Boeing actually seems like a smart idea. Perfect example: Delta uses their multi-fleet strategy as negotiating leverage in trying to drum up the best deals for aircraft acquisitions. Interesting to see that that MAX 8 may be "the" MAX jet at SWA.
Originally Posted by
Otterbox
Depends on where you are at Spirit. Already a Captain? Maybe best to wait for a legacy so you won’t be stuck in the right seat of the 73 for 10-15 years. FO? Maybe worth going to SWA but with 30 years left you could be a 777/787 etc. CA for the last 10 years of your career at UA, DAL, FedEx, UPS and AA.
First Officer with just a few years invested. Interesting point about career progression, particularly in the last 20 years ... which isn't a small consideration.
Originally Posted by
AJ311
We make more because we block more, generally in fewer days but does that matter? This needs to be properly addressed in C2020 to get my vote. New CEO says they want the deal wrapped up by the end of the year, I just hope we don’t go first this time. We are in negotiations so take this with a grain when reading online. 1,000+ pilots are about to make their displeasure heard in DAL.
SW is stable, and they stepped on their crank with the warn letters. But this last downturn saw a leveled playing field with the covid cash, think about what would’ve happened without this $$? Is this the new norm? Is a recession on the horizon? I’d be asking all these questions.
The upgrade is coming down. Max 8’s are being delivered instead of the max 7’s.
Most say the people are awesome because by and large they are awesome. Deserving of a contract that reflects we work for a very profitable and fiscally sound airline.
Thanks for the reply. It really sounds like the new contract could really salvage this place as premier place to work given the amount of hiring and options out there currently. I agree that we're headed into a recession rapidly and energy costs are going to wreck the profitability of some major airlines, particularly those that are highly leveraged in an environment where interest rates are on the rise as well. You guys definitely have earned a new contract -- the level of productivity, thus risk exposure, coupled with a dated contract relative to your peers ... hopefully SWA's management puts their money where their mouth is. The hiring environment is hot and I don't know how everyone plans to scrounge up 1,200 to 2,500 qualified pilots next year without having an extremely attractive value proposition.