Originally Posted by
kronan
There is zippo guidance on what airpspeed we "should" be flying above 10k to help the controllers out. Nor, is there a block for climb/descent airpspeed when you file for a clearance. Would be interesting to listen in to the WX-BRIEF pilot filing for the flight asking the FSS guy if he wants his climb airspeed.
I'd like to see a climb/descent speed on the flight plans. Would be a big red flag for me that would be easily noticed.
There is absolutely know way for me to "know" what airpseed the guy in front of me is flying. TCAS doesn't display relative closure, and I've been in more than one plane where the relative angle and distance weren't as calibrated as I'd like.
So, absent any guidance on the SID or STAR- verbiage from the controllers, I am going to fly whatever airspeed I think is appropriate to the situation.
I know you have no way of knowing how fast or slow the guy in front of you or behind you is going. That's my worry, anyway. I'm just surprised at the radical difference in how the same jet is flown, both from the same airline and a different airline. Before the influx of Airbus', Emrbraers, and Bombadier's, 90% of the carriers that flew Boeings and MD's, flew them in a similar manner. Figure a climb out from 10k to mid-20's at around 300kts, give or take (737s in this example). Same when at cruise with mach numbers. Very constant across the airlines on what they would operate at, with a few notable exceptions. It's a different time now I guess.
Shoot, even if I'm flying 60 KIAS faster than the guy in front of me, that's still 5 minutes before I'm close enough to be truly concerned, assuming 5 miles in trail. And that's also assuming we are climbing at the exact same rate of speed. IF he's climbing at 3k/min and I'm only doing 1k, even though at some point in time I am going to pass him, the altitude separation will be more than sufficient by the time I'm directly below him.
Center separation is like apples and oranges compared to Tracon. With few exceptions, the absolute bare minimum is 5 miles at the same altitude. However, no one, and I mean no one, separates using 5 or even 6 miles. It just doesn't work (except when it "has" to work! lol). In one sector I work, I take a handoff from approach, and have a mere 4 minutes or less to hand them off to the next enroute center. The SID we use doesn't have a speed on it, but after reading all of the replies and thinking about it, I guess it needs to. Anyway, if I hand the next center less than 10 miles intrail, I'm not doing my job; I'm not helping my fellow controller out at all. That buffer of 5 miles there dissolves quickly, especially when aircraft decide to change airspeed settings from what they were before I took the handoff. My radar updates 1 time every 12 seconds, or 5 times a minute. Whatever I'm seeing on the screen, happened 12 seconds earlier, sometimes longer. Also, we use a mosaic system, where the computer is collecting radar returns from 2 or more radar sites at the same time. It then has to estimate (I call it guess), where your plane is exactly, and then display it on the screen. That's why we have to use at least 5 miles: for display error. There are locations (known) that targets will "jump". That's another consideration we have to take into account. I have seen tracks jump sideways and backwards. It's an attention-getter !
Anyway, it's good to hear views from up there, so I'm glad there has been as many responses as there have been. When we had the jumpseat program, I always enjoyed talking to you guys and getting your side of it. That's been a huge omission, in my opinion, for these new kids coming in. They really have no idea what you guys do, and for that matter, vice versa, as I never see pilots in for tours. Since my last fam trip was 7 years ago, I have not had the opportunity to fly in the new jets, which would help me, should they ever bring the program back. Take care guys n' gals - Anonymous
ps - I did work one of those new Eclipse VLJ's the other day. It went straight up! However, ground speed was only about 160 kts in the climb! Those are gonna be real fun
