Originally Posted by
Jeti1214
But with the pay being as low as it is, why would anyone come to work here, much less stay for as a career.
That's only true if you have a very limited view.
Since nobody seems to want to actually figure this out but would rather instead complain about the supposedly low pay, I've done the work for you and compiled this handy chart. It's the reason why I continue to tell people to think long-term, look past the first year, look past the number behind the dollar sign, and don't assume your career will follow the trajectory you expect it to.
For simplicity, this chart uses 2023(ish) pay rates for each company because they all increase at approximately the same rate as ABX (if not less). It assumes upgrade at 2 years, which is currently a realistic assumption at each company shown. It assumes minimum guarantee - the highest minimum if there is a difference between reserve and line holders. It also includes the various bonuses currently being paid for new hires, upgrades, and retention, as well as company 401k contributions. I don't guarantee that this is dead nuts accurate down to the last dollar, but it's certainly in the neighborhood and good enough for basic comparisons.
Book1.jpg
So yes, you can do better financially at one of those regionals, at least for the first two years. Beyond that, they start to lose their advantage as the bonuses run out and the captain pay rates at the regionals are much lower. And if those temporary rates at the AA lines aren't extended, forget about it. Yes, I know you expect to be at Big Name Airline by that time. Some of you will make it. Some of you won't. When the recession hits for real, most of you are going to be stuck wherever you are for a while.
And then consider this: Those higher paying regionals are now going to be flooded with applications. They are going to be in the position of being able to be very picky. It is far from guaranteed that you will be able to get hired by one of them.
If it's really all about the Benjamins for you, you can take the extra two days per month (or more) that you're off compared to your contemporaries at the "highly paid" regionals and pick up some open time trips, maybe at 200%, and make up the difference.
The company seems content to hire and train pilots for the majors. Obviously, they find it cheaper to train and release rather than train and retain.
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When talking with any member of the Union, the response is the same, the company is not interested in raising pilot pay rates.
It's what everybody who isn't Big Name Airline is doing right now. Nobody is going to a regional airline with the intention of staying there. The turnover will continue, but now it's costing those companies that much more to achieve the same result. ATSG and ABX are in the business of making money for shareholders, not supplying jobs for pilots. If they thought increasing pay rates would result in significant cost savings, they would do it. But they know that most new hires are at ABX to enhance their résumé on their way to somewhere else, and management is not interested in paying more for the privilege of being a stepping stone. When the turnover reaches their pain point, they will find a way to address it.
Yet due to a no strike clause, pilots cannot do nothing about it.
1. Learn something about the Railway Labor Act and how it affects the ability of any pilot union to strike.
2. Learn what the no strike clause actually means and why it's there.
3. Understand that a strike is not the solution to all of your problems. Ask anybody who was at ABX six years ago to explain why.
Scheduling absolutely abuses pilots with new trips that would not be tolerated by any other pilot group with even a moderate union.
Load o' crap, and a terrible accusation to level against a union that does significant work on your behalf - never mind the improvements they negotiated into the current contract to help make your life better. The scheduling committee has had several wins recently when it comes to improving pairings and reducing fatigue scores. Scheduling managers have agreed to changes that resulted in more flying lines.
Schedulers are briefed by the union on the contract scheduling rules. Anything crew scheduling assigns to you is within the limits of the contract. If they try to assign something that isn't legal, it's by mistake or misunderstanding and you should refuse it, citing the pertinent regulation or article of the contract.
Don't treat crew scheduling as the enemy. They have a job to do, and the rules are the rules. Just as you use every rule in the contract to your advantage, so do they. We are the ones who agreed to the rules. Don't blame crew schedulers for playing by them.
There are a few schedulers who will do whatever they can to help you out, especially if they know you will return the favor from time to time. Even the ones people consider to be difficult can be persuaded if you do it right. You get what you give.
Displacements for pilot training eat up a line so much so, that it really isn't worth bidding a line. While the unions sends out emails asking for proof they know full well is happening.
I don't know what you mean by that last part, but again, you're barking up the wrong tree complaining about this union, which is currently looking for ways to reduce the pain of training displacements.
Don't complain about displacements for training. It's just poor form. Nobody likes them, but they are an inevitable part of life on the line when we have new hires. Remember that when you were on IOE, somebody got displaced for you.
And read the contract so that you know why there are advantages to holding a line when you're displaced for training. Being displaced into flex days is still better than being on reserve.
So either move on or shut up.
Good advice. It's kind of odd that it comes at the end of such a rant.