Originally Posted by
ninerdriver
... We should propose nothing other than both a pay bump and reserve QOL improvements in exchange for nothing other than "pilots will actually volunteer to upgrade with these things." If the company balks at both, okay, make the CA bump higher and the FO bump lower. Or negotiate reserve QOL terms in exchange for that TPA co-domicile. There will be plenty of senior-ish CAs now who are going to find themselves much more junior in Florida (and FFS, don't just give the company TPA for free).
We made some significant gains at my last airline several years before the recent COVID pay increases. We didn't do it by saying, "it is what it is." We did it by 1) not accepting less than what we felt we deserved, and 2) actually negotiating with the company, not grandstanding or accepting no for an answer.
And to beat a few of you to it... no. I don't want to go back to where I came from. Let's instead bring that same approach here and bring some meaningful gains to everyone on property. Not just senior pilots, and not just junior pilots.
First of all, I will never say "go back to where you came from".. never. However, therein lies the rub. If things were so much better where you (or others) came from.. why leave and come here to change things here.
And NO, I'm not saying that there aren't things that need changing (sick Leave, LTD, PBS, Scheduling, etc..). I'm saying that while everyone has a right to their opinions, we are a union pilot group and are based on Seniority. While there are times when two pilots are "equal" to their opinions, there are also times when the senior pilot has a bit more influence than the junior pilot.
I bolded "we deserve" in your comment. How many pilots were in your pilot group and what was their makeup?
At United, we probably have 14000+ish pilots who have a right to their own opinions. But there is no way that they all will be in lock step over "
what we deserve" as the senior pilots have seen more and taken it in the shorts more, than the junior pilots. Then we also have 3 distinct groups. Did you know that there is still about @65 mil in a pot for Continental LTD pilots (of which there are "roughly" 31 pilots still out on LTD)
[excuse me if my numbers are slightly off]. Why is a plan that is directly related to the CAL pilots part of a larger negotiated settlement?
This is why I say it's hard to get everyone rowing together, all the time. Hopefully we are rowing close enough, in step- BUT in the right direction!
Originally Posted by
tundrabeat
Thank you everyone for your replies. What a time to be a pilot; I hope we are all appreciative of that--I know that I am. I may be naive, but I truly think improvements to work rules can be a win-win, and not pilots vs company, one vs the other.
It
is a great time to be a new pilot. But it was also a great time to be a pilot in other times throughout history. And again, therein lies the problem as we don't teach "history".
A win win IS what we would all like. But we should also accept facts.
Fact- a company's sole goal is to turn a profit.
Fact- a company would love to have lowest possible labor costs.
Fact- a company will only improve QoL & Pay when they have to, ie.. can't get employees or losing their employees
Fact- as a union airline pilot, after 1-3 years it becomes extremely hard to leave and have to start at the bottom again
I (and probably) the majority of our pilot group WANT a Great Airline. We show up to work trying to do our best. For our Passengers, our fellow crewmembers and for our company.
A Strong Healthy company means less stress at the workplace and at home.
But-
I just finished my month on reserve (756 Capt, EWR). 7.. yes, 7 shortcalls. We have it in the UPA that the company CAN offer and assign pure Short Call lines. At 76 hours pay.
They do not do it. They would rather throw pilots on Short Call and gamble if they are used. And if not, the first 2 are free (no ADD Pay)
A win win would be to have SC lines.. but if the company won't do it and we will have to butt heads when this issue comes up during negotiations.
Not Personal, just Business.
Originally Posted by
ninerdriver
It's always a quid pro quo, right? The pilots get better reserve rules, and the company gets... pilots volunteering to fill captain vacancies.
Reserve can be fixed without spending a dime of pilot negotiating capital.
Again, I would love to see reserve "Fixed" without spending a dime of pilot negotiating capital. But how?
I expect that since Delta's TA is worth 7.2B..ish (based on their statements), we will have to be looking at somewhere north of that amount.
Will the company spend all that on every section EXCEPT reserve rules? I don't think so.
Then, what are we willing to accept?
Should we see a greater split in Capt/FO Pay? Currently (based on ALPA's own study-) us and Delta have a FO's at 68.3% of Captains pay (12th yr). Should be open up that gap slightly?
Can't post the graph (not tech savy enough!) but..
US / Delta
2yr- 47.7% - 53.5%
5yr- 64.1% - 64.1%
10yr- 68.0% - 68.1%
That there might cause pilots to re-evaluate the reason to switch into the Left seat.
(For the record- have also though about less pay categories but more overrides, and also looking at a 13-15yr pay scale)
The responsibility of being the Head Pilot in Charge (LOL.. some will get it) is actually a great responsibility that may have been watered down over the past decade.
Should we not be greatly compensated for the added responsibility?
I EXPECT an
ILC23 (TA) by 11 Apr 23. I also expect it will match and/or exceed Delta's.
Time will tell. But lets keep discussing these issues while looking at the past for history while listening to those who are senior and have gone through this before. Ya don't have to agree.. but lets communicate!
Always
Motch
PS) Sorry.. she was a long one!