Originally Posted by
HeavyD
A few questions for you and tm602 on SWA.
1. Years 1-3 expected earnings if you commute.
2. Training intensity/style compared to NJA's
3. Regarding last month's company email: likelihood of seeing STL or MCI as a new base this year. Sounds like BNA is a lock.
Any other insight you would be willing to share would be appreciated. I think there are more than a few considering the move.
1) I only commuted 2 months, bases of choice are well under a year and mostly just a few months if not right away. Year 1 was rough at year 1 pay but I did an average, without trying and flying only my assigned trips, a hair over $105,000 as a reserve pilot (by choice). I flew on average about 11-12 of the 15 reserve days a month and had 15 days completely off.
As a year 2 line holder, with 18 days off, I can fly nothing but my assigned trips average about 95 TFP and make about $125,000 lowballing, but reserves will likely make $140,000 based on 105ish TFP. Year 1 you can do better than I did because everything you do on days off makes Year 2 pay. I picked up nothing extra the first year. For Year 2, if I pick up a couple days a month (these are NOT extended days like NJA has despite Spots' and Falcon's denial and/or lack of comprehension...these days are of no benefit to the company, its just guys trading and dropping trips/days with eachother), I can average about what reserves make but still dictate what trips I want to do. Year 3 it would be easy to make $150,000. With a little effort like a couple premium pickups, $175,000. These are "today's rates"....so with the contract settled, plenty more....and don't forget the company has the 15% NEC to your 401k and that is not out of your pay, its a plain and simple deposit. You make say, $1000 and they deposit $150. You keep your $1000.
2) The training is done rather weird, but it was very, very low stress. No stump the dummy baloney. No "prove yourself worthy" stuff like a choice few at FSI did. It is, from Day 1, very clear that they are there to get you through. And they do. It could probably be a little shorter but having a few extra days in the schoolhouse never hurt anyone. And you actually are treated like an adult. You get enough days off, you get fed lunch once in a while. But I do miss the free PB, Cup O Noodles and cereal at FSI. And I still want that dry soup machine they had in Toledo.
The sims are far more fulfilling and are instructional rather than the FSI daily time-compressed stress events where you better have your A game every day. Not that FSI was terrible, but there were a few there that seemed to get their rocks off by playing games. They don't tolerate any of that in the SWA training department. You come out typed, safe and competent....just without the stressed out feeling. Overall SWA training is a very welcoming and fulfilling, and dare I say...fun training event.
3) MCI and STL are strategic places to alleviate the Chicago nightmare(s). BNA has been in the works since Boeing took the props off the B17s thus announcing the 737.....I'll believe in new bases when I see them. Hell, I just want service to Chattanooga.
Additional:
*We don't get paid by the flight hour, we get paid by a "Trip for pay", or TFP. 243 miles is a TFP, and the rigs also come into play so typically a single day is worth 6 TFP or more. Easy to trade out those 6 TFP days and get ones that pay 7 or 8. Making money is something you learn along the way, and is a vast subject. Lots of ways to do it.
*If you want to make $$ easy, bid reserve. It just happens. Reassignments, move ups, etc pay extra. And honestly, PM reserve was better than the 60 Day CC at NJA was for me. You can choose PM or AM reserve pretty quickly, like a month or 2.
*I'll add that IMO the "pay-for" health plan is not worth the $$. I switched to the Regular Plan, which is company paid...IOW has no premiums. Its $200 individual/$300 family deductible, then covered at 80% (folks correct me if I'm wrong) and then after $2500 OOP, in total for all the family combined, you are done paying for anything for the year, period. Just remember, no Teledoc or preventative stuff is covered. For guys like me with family members that have health problems its great. I don't worry about preventative because none of us go to the doctor until we are broken or pretty bad. We in our household find that a healthy lifestyle is enough prevention but not everyone has that advantage, so choose for your particulars and get the plan that best fits your needs.
*Remember we have one aircraft type, and if you have 15 years or more in front of you, you may get the "widebody itch". I personally like that idea and like getting really good at one thing over pretty good at many. Just me.
*If you want a fast upgrade, this aint the place. But as an FO who will soon be making my NJA money with 15-18 off and not have to sign any papers, I'm fine in the right seat. Many aren't, and they leave.
* We work hard here. Our turns are short. Again, my personal choice, I like that. Show up, fly, and done. I simply despise sitting around FBOs and doing nothing but getting tired. We do ETOPS, TransCons and multi leg days which are easy enough to obtain your preference through bidding with better seniority.
*Speaking of seniority, it actually means something here. I'm 2 months into Year 2 and I hold a line with 3-4 short legs a day (my preference), PMs (my preference) and 18 days off. 3 on 4 off, and off every weekend. EVERY weekend. Still averaging 95 TFP just flying as scheduled. But its easy to pick up a day round (or 2/3/4 day) from guys wanting to drop or trade up/down. Can change your entire line around in ELITT with a little effort. I can't say enough how life in general improves when you are in charge of it.
* Overnights are good, much better. And my shoulders & neck haven't bothered me since leaving NJA. Keeping healthy is easier when you can sleep, work out and eat
every day without having to fatigue to do so.
*Speaking of fatigue...I hate to pop the "industry leading fatigue policy" bubble at NJA, but ours is identical.....but I just haven't needed it. And they won't charge you a sick day if you don't do the report. Its voluntary. We have a union that negotiated very good work rules here and even on crazy days I never feel exhausted. I have used my alarm clock to wake up only 3 times since hitting IOE at SWA (not including the days I go fishing of course).
*Disability needs improvement. Badly.
*Tech issues plague us but will be improving. They can't hide it anymore.
*Captains are great. I can go on all day about that.
*Hotels are really good and we get much better than the NJA 10-15% off food. AND very few noise problems because they have crews all the time and so the floors are usually designated crew floors.
*We pay for our own uniforms (fix in next contract).
*We pay for our own parking, about $60-$80 a month or so (company is changing to paying for it, just don't know when....so its a contract fix as well for now).
*Commuter clause is excellent. No questions asked when you use it. List on one SWA flight that is scheduled to arrive 1 hour before report and you are covered. Two if not using SWA.
*You have your choice of the "boat coat" /blazer, Karbon, or leather jacket and wear them when YOU see fit. If its hot, no jacket required. I like the Karbon because it smashes down very small to pack, doesn't wrinkle, and if you peel the stripes off you have your civvy jacket, and it is quite warm. I don't like the boat coat as it isn't much protection and is another article to iron. The leather jacket is just heavy and takes up space. Just my preference.
*No artificial professionalism through coercive crew policies that do nothing in fact to enhance professionalism.....as an example...You can wear your IronMan / Triathlon watch without violating company policy (yes its in the NJA crew policy manual), in general, this is a far more adult atmosphere. They expect you to look and act like a professional but for the most part trust that up to you without obsessive policies.
*The contract is a hot coal right now. Very hot. But we'll get it done. I'm just checking off one month after another of retro for as long as they drag. SWAPA has their act together and you won't hear "now is not the time" or "they aren't interested so there's nothing we can do" or my favorite..."what are you willing to give up?".
*No company arrest bracelet, er, phone. And yes, its nice not having to mess around with Uber/Lyft. Just call the hotel to make sure they are there (because we are always late!) and off to the hotel. No expense reports. No bags. No cleaning.
Hungry? You can go get food (and there are plenty of choices including healthy options). I'd rather buy a salad and real chicken than have, for free, last week's leftovers jammed in a plastic box with the same zuchinni and "my choice" of dipping sauce....and only if it actually shows up. I don't play the "eat later for my deviation" game. Even on a 35 minute turn, there is time to get food. There is usually at least one turn of nearly an hour each day too. I bring my food for the most part because there is plenty of room for my "feed bag", crew bag, and carry on.
*So I'll conclude this homily and say that for me this is a no brainer win. I'm very happy here and its nice to be a pilot again. Show up, fly, done. I like the "monotony" of knowing when and where I'm going. I love that rarely do I have to sit in the back of an airliner to go to work.....on a last minute booking at that (looove those NJA middle seats we all get). Passenger problem? Call the Sup. MX problem? Call MX.
Now of course I won't candy coat, we definitely do have problems. Some real stupid ones too. But these will get dealt with, maybe right after the Second Coming of Jesus, but they will get done. But I have to say that for me this has been an absolute zero-regret decision. I'm sure some dig that FBO stuff, sitting around and watching TV, and don't mind constant surprises. I don't like that. I like predictability, dictating my own life, and staying up late/waking up late. Even after 16.5 years, NJA never afforded any control of our life for us other than a 7/7. When does my day start tomorrow? Dunno....look at your TNDA. PSYCHE! That 0800 show that was there all day is now a 0400 for a 0900 departure. "We need the coverage" "Things are changing" "You're covering NXXXQS" (which BTW is 500 miles away). It just got old. And hearing numbnuts comments like "they own you 14 hours a day" just reeked of total lack of value in one's self as a professional. Battered wife Syndrome.
And they never ever will change. Its just how it is there. That wasn't for me. Even with the problems we have, this is a far better job. And I have yet to see any NJA pilot want to go back from here.
So just decide what you want, and if you are willing to take a step backwards for a couple years. Look at the long run. If you want a fast upgrade, go to UAL. Ours is 7 years. If you want widebody stuff, go to Delta. If you want good work rules but a lot of flying, and don't mind spending the rest of your career in one aircraft type, go to SWA. But if you like new places every week, or live in the Boonies, you like only having to bid a schedule once a year, and don't mind working 12-13 hours a day for what, 3 hours of flying, stay at NJA.