Originally Posted by Lewbronski

Different perspective: I've had many duty days longer than 11 hours. Most of my duty days are over 10 hours. Most of my overnights are sub-14 hours.

Four legs in a day is very common. Five legs is not terribly uncommon. I see six leg days on occasion. And I have personally flown seven legs in a day at SWA.

Anecdotally, while Champeen may have made more than his AA buddy in his first year at SWA, if an AA pilot and a SWA pilot fly the equivalent number of credit hours during their first year, the AA pilot would make slightly more than the SWA pilot. A SWA pilot would typically answer that by saying something like, "Because we have so much more flexibility at SWA, we can earn more credit hours (work more) than pilots at other airlines." There is an entire rabbit hole of discussion that can ensue from statements like that. I'll spare you, but my experience has been it boils down to: you have to work significantly more at SWA to significantly out-earn OAL pilots. Some people love that about SWA. If that's your "jam" - working more for the next X decades or embracing the suck - then you'll probably love it here.

So, that's the first year. Over the course of the first ten years, though, at current rates, using SWAPA's published earliest available upgrade for AA (three years to a NB) advertised a few months ago on their "Considering a Career at Southwest Airlines?" graphic and SWA's earliest upgrade (not lance) at seven years, the AA pilot will out-earn the SWA pilot by $412K flying an equivalent number of credit hours. I don't know how long it takes to hold WB captain at AA, but that would also pretty dramatically impact career earnings once an AA pilot makes that leap.

And something to consider is what Hoover said:


Don't know how old Champeen is, but that's definitely something to think about. The trips are a grind for many. They have gotten more and more difficult since I arrived here (approximately 20 years ago). Part of that is due to the interaction of the effects of FAR 117 (allows longer block times) combined with the 800-sized aircraft becoming a larger and larger proportion of our fleet (longer boarding/deplaning leading to longer duty days and shorter overnights). Part of it is due to the increased emphasis on the "financialization" (for lack of a better term) of our airline. And part of it is due to getting older.

For the first many years I was at SWA, back when we had longer overnights, I used to be able to go out and drink and party much of the night, get a few hours of sleep, and then go fly what was then a full day (like nine hours or so). No way on Earth can I do that anymore. Age, longer days, and shorter overnights have made it so that I haven't been able to do anything like that for eight or nine years.

Champeen may be in his 20's or 30's. Champeen may have superior genetics. I don't know. But for me, and many folks I've talked to, the trips have become significantly harder to deal with over the years. After a decade or two, they can become a real chore.

Champeen says certain people here on APC are "toxic." Okay. I suppose the pilots who founded ALPA because of the unacceptable working conditions back in the 30's may have also been perceived as "toxic" by some people. I suppose the pilots who have led the fights for and secured better pay and work rules over the decades were thought of as "toxic" by some. That's just the way it goes.

"Discontent is the first step in the progress of a man or nation." -Oscar Wilde