Originally Posted by
Carl Spackler
This is my first post, as I have wanted to study the facts for a while. I am around 500 on the NWA list - hired in 1983. NWA is my 3rd airline and I've been furloughed 5 times in my career.
The reason most NWA guys could not accept the ratio proposed by DAL is quite simple. I am 52 years old and nearly everyone senior to me at NWA is older. The majority of the top 500 at DAL are in their 40's. Even if DAL's proposed ratio was one for one, that means around 500 DAL people in their 40's would be senior to me. At NWA, if I make it until 60, I retire as #9. With a one for one ratio with DAL pilots who are younger than me, the best I could hope for is retiring at #509. The same result occurs when you run this sampling back to the top 1000, top 1500, etc.
It is everyone's hope that if they make it until 60, there is a chance to make it to the top. At NWA, it was a possibility. With DAL's proposed ratio, this is an impossibility. This most unusual demographic at DAL is what makes a simple ratio inequitable.
Carl
OK Guys...I dont post here very often but ALL TOO often I follow these posts..
My background..I'm a 52 yr old retired Navy guy, hired at NWA in 98, bottom third on the 320 FO list in MSP...
FIRST..Carl, GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You HAVE made it to the top!! To basically quote one of your early responders, you WILL NOT garner ANY sympathy from most of us rank and file guys here at NWA...I mean 52 yr old -400 Capt??? With a basically a FULL frozen pension?? C'mon! And you'll end up at 509 +/- at a 12000 pilot airline. Shoot, I wish I had your "concern"!! You are fortunate to have been hired when you did, at old (RED BOOK) NWA. I HOPE you are not one of the many at your seniority who have NO concern for us "little guys" (the Seattle 40 ...?)
Background for you DAL guys...after pension freeze in bankruptcy, ALPA negotiated a
stopgap 5% company contribution to our 401k (for ALL pilots), to be
renegotiated after emergence and replaced with a
targeted DC plan. This was voted on and approved by the rank and file. This targeted plan took into consideration age and yrs with the company, and resulted in a complex table of annual contribution per group (age/yrs) to attempt to reach a 50% FAE of what you WOULD have received had the pension not been frozen. Example..I am 52 with 9 yrs (at the time) and I am getting about $15500 NWA contribution annually into my retirement, which aint bad at $90/hr 320 pay! Anybody who had MET that 50% with the frozen DB (ie wide body CA with 25 yrs in already, others also) receives nothing. The amount ranges from 0 to over $16k per yr, depending on age and yrs...When the targeted DC came into effect, it REPLACED the 5% stopgap. Theres a group of senior SEA guys here that actually filed suit to stop the targeted DC plan...because they no longer get the 5% that was
always supposed to be temporary. They say its not fair and that 5% belongs to THEM!! GREED!
On my last trip, my CA told me of (on HIS last trip) a -400 CA jumpseater (who gets 0 targeted contribution) that got in to a "discussion" with the FO regarding his RIGHT to that 5%. The FO had been furloughed, was finally back, trying to make ends meet..his frozen DB will be around $1200/month when he retires, and he told the -400 CA jumpseater that he was really going to need that targeted DC to supplement his meager retirement. The -400 CA said "well if that $1200 isnt enough for you, you can always work part time at Walmart"...this coming from a guy with over $10k frozen retirement, and wanting his 5% on top of that. My CA said the FO nearly came out of the seat at the guy....In my 10 yrs here at NWA, this just wreaks of another example of the senior NWA guys (either color) taking care of themselves at the extreme expense of everyone else. What ever happened to a little compassion and camaraderie? At least, not in your face!!
The frozen pension isnt what we signed on for, but ask the the UAL, USAIR, or our DAL brothers about that!!!
My point (I know...finally)...the vast majority of guys I fly with want this to be worked out, are willing to "adjust" their seniority somewhat for the greater good. We dont expect either side to take it up the wazoo, and we dont expect either side to get a windfall at our brothers expense.
QUESTION....if anybody has any knowledge of what is/was on the table, where would a Oct 98 guy fall in the combined list? Rumor is that DAL wanted the bottom 900 NWA guys to be the bottom 900 on the combined list. Rumor... All i want (and my buds here at NWA) is to be blended equitably with guys of our seniority. I dont want a 2007 DAL guy above me, thats not fair, but I'm willing to give up a little for the common good.
Sorry for the long post!
Oh, and the whole DAL deal with management just smelled bad from our side, you DAL guys can probably see our point on that. Maybe in this case, smelling, looking and tasting like POO, may not necessarily mean its POO!!
I sure hope not!!
AND...most importantly, if WE agree to leather jackets..PLEASE make them the ones we NWA guys have already bought. I'd hate to spend another $400!!!
Cheers!