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Old 09-02-2023 | 12:11 PM
  #32  
JohnBurke
Disinterested Third Party
 
Joined: Jun 2012
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Originally Posted by Drifter123
One of the three people I personally know just received a permanent airman certificate revocation and is now expecting charges.!
You personally know three people? Impressive. Thanks for sharing. At least it's easy to remember birthdays and all that, with just three.

Originally Posted by Drifter123
I think after this initial run, the FAA may become even more aggressive if folks aren’t being up front. I also agree with previous statements that the FAA is pursing the fraudulent applications versus necessarily actually exercising airman privileges with potentially disqualifying conditions.!
The FAA can't get much more aggressive than revoking certification. The only thing the FAA can do beyond that is refer for criminal prosecution, which is generally reserved for events such as Valujet.

The FAA is pursuing airman for failure to declare the benefits, AND for the conditions which are discovered as a result. The vaunted article to which you keep referring (based on the one word that you apparently actually read) explains that the degree of enforcement will depend on multiple factors, not the least of which is the nature of the condition for which the concealed benefit was awarded. Another factor is the amount of time or number of applications that the airman failed to disclose.

Originally Posted by JBird
No doubt people who dishonestly fill out a VA or FAA document should suffer appropriate punishment when it comes to light. But because there is a ver small number of people who do that, shouldn’t give the FAA blanket authority to investigate a pilot group in secret and apparently outside the scope of due process. Your painting with too wide of a brush.
I'm not painting anything, brightspark. I stick to facts. You've opined all manner of rightwing conspiracy, as you continue to do now, and as I've just quoted you doing. There's no conspiracy, nor painting, nor secret, here. It's enforcement action. Enforcement action is not done using criminal law. It's not civil law. It's administrative law. Due process?

You understand that under administrative law, you're considered guilty until proven innocent, do you not? When a letter of investigation is delivered to you, it is not an invitation to defend itself, despite an invitation to tell your side of the story. It's an attempt to gain evidence to use against you in the appeal process. When enforcement action is taken, your first opportunity to argue it is the appeal, because you've already been convicted. In fact, even the letter of investigation will be used against you, and will stay in your file, formerly for a minimum of two years. Due process? Do you actually hold an airman certificate and not know this?

The FAA does not undertake investigations by first making an announcement. The FAA receives information, investigates it, and then if a determination is made to proceed further, various subjects who are party to the investigation will be notified in an effort to elicit information from them. Much of the time, their response, the defense, they think they're providing, serves as their final undoing. It's the reason why one should never respond to a legal FAA request without counsel from an attorney who specializes in admin law dealing with the FAA.

The FAA garners information from all sorts of sources. I know an inspector that initiated enforcement action based on a talk a private pilot gave in church. The private pilot talked about flying a friend somewhere and alluded to receiving something in return, lunch, etc, and the inspector, who was present in the church service, went after the private pilot. The FAA often takes reports from bystanders, or observers; private pilots commonly get busted for taking compensation or hire because a 135 operator on the field turned them in. The FAA has crosschecked state disability databases for those failing to report medical conditions or disability, and many other sources, and none of this is earth shattering or news. Except, perhaps, to you.

If you don't like the FAA's enforcement action, you're really going to hate the TSA's Rap Back. You don't know about that, do you?

Originally Posted by JBird
Ever make a topo? I make them all he time.
So, you're a map maker. Who knew?

Originally Posted by JBird
That is egregious and should be harshly punished after an administrative process where the accused can have an opportunity to present a case.
That's not how the administrative process works. Guilty until proven innocent. You'll get to try to prove that during the appeal process, after enforcement action has been taken. That's what your FAA record will reflect, too.

This isn't simply punishment. Someone who has failed to disclose a medical condition, and thus flown or continues to fly with a disqualifying medical condition is a regulatory violation, and may be a safety hazard. One who flies while medically disqualified is a safety hazard (and given your ignorance of everything else regarding this subject, you probably don't know this, but if you operate at any time with a medically disqualifying condition, your medical certificate is not valid during that period, regardless of whether you've reported to the FAA or not, or whether the FAA has notified you, or whether it's temporary or not. It's actually spelled out on the back of your medical certificate. Thus, no one can say they weren't warned.

Originally Posted by JBird
This regards individuals who are judge on an individual level to have a trigger for the FAA in the files.
You know that's a nonsensical sentence, right? Is English not your first language?

Originally Posted by JBird
It is not an authorization for the FAA to say they will secretly investigate everyone who applies for a 1st class and has VA disability. That’s just wrong, people are people.
Actually, 14 CFR 67.413, already quoted and cited for you with a link so you can read it yourself, states just that. You still didn't go read it, did you? https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/section-67.413

The FAA can examine your medical application, and anything related thereto. The FAA can continue to do so even after your medical certificate has been issued. You may or may not be notified of this investigation. This not not a matter of fairness; the FAA is charged with regulating aviation in the United States. The FAA is charged with aviation safety. If you have a disability claim with an insurance company, the VA, another agency, etc, you're subject to investigation, and if you didn't claim it, you're subject to enforcement action. You're ignorant of all this, and having caught a glimpse of one corner of the enforcement and investigative process, have decided to rise up on your conspiracy-minded right-wing soapbox, indignant over one adjective used by one reporter. You'll be shocked and mortified, should you one day choose to open your eyes and find out the scope and extent of the process.

People are people..what's that supposed to mean? This is enforcement. If you don't want to become the subject of enforcement, don't violate the regulation. Pilots are expected to NOT bumble through life, ignorant and unaware. Pilots are expected to NOT conceal via commission or omission, or lie or use subterfuge or deceit in their legal dealings with the FAA. You ARE aware that the FAA medical application is a legal form, correct? (You're aware that your logbook is a legal document, too?)

Take a look at the statement that appears in the lower left corner of the FAA Form 8500-8:
Whoever in any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States knowingly and willingly falsifies, conceals or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact, or who makes any false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or representations, or entry, may be fined up to $250,000 or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both. (18 U.S. Code Secs. 1001; 3571).
It's a serious matter. It really is. The FAA's extent of enforcement action typically ends at revocation of certificates, but it does go beyond. Typically pilots receive certificate action such as suspensions and revocations, while operators receive fines, but that isn't always true, and imprisonment is also possible. It's not a kid-game. It's a legal document without the protections or process of criminal or civil law, but can quickly progress into criminal law because there are also criminal penalties for concealing, covering up, making false or fraudulent statements, etc.

Originally Posted by JBird
Measure the man (or woman) by the facts they present to you and if you think there are shenanigans, then act appropriately.
This isn't a measurement of "the man" or "the woman." This is a legal issue, and no, it's not merely presented by the facts presented by "the man" or "the woman." That's why there's an investigative process. If you lie to a police officer or agent, there are consequences; regardless of what you say or the subject, the fact that you've lied, carries penalties. The same is true if you lie on a federal form, and the FAA Form 8500-8 is a legal document and a federal form. Any deceit on that form is subject to enforcement action regardless of whether it's an outright lie, or simply bending the truth, or a slight misrepresentation, or a failure to include something on the form. The FAA does not have the manpower to examine and investigate everything. It's for that reason that there are designated examiners, aviation medical examiners, mechanics with inspection authorizations, and contractors used. When it comes to the medical application, the FAA does not simply act based on what's presented by "the man" on the medical application, nor necessarily take it at face value.

An aviation medical examiner may find that an airman has filled out his medexpress application, for example, and stated on line 18.m that he has no mental disorders or any sort, anxiety, depression, etc. The AME however, while typically not a psychologist or psychiatrist, is charged with making a determination not only based on what the applicant put on his form, but his smell, appearance, memory, speech, mood, cognition, etc. Most airman have no idea that they're being evaluated for those things as the doctor makes small talk, but it's also part of the exam. The doctor is not only concerned with what the airman claimed on the exam, but what the doctor observes at the time of the exam. https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_pr...tech/item47/et

The FAA may, in turn, seek further clarification, and frequently does. This may take place after the medical certificate has been issued. The FAA does not simply take at face value what's presented on the form, and let it go at that. It's a legal statement, with a signature, and it carries weight. It comes with consequences attached. Hide something, take a risk getting caught, don't whine when you are caught. Every airman is subject to scrutiny. If this offends your sense of fair play, that's merely your ignorance of the process talking. That any of this may be news to you doesn't really make it news.
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