Originally Posted by
Emmerson Bigs
Justinfacts is making a valid point that many of you seem to want to connveniently ignore. If this next TA is now about matching or exceeding industry pay rates no matter what, then the specifics in that goal DO matter. Like it or not, our goals require justifcation and logic with the NMB involved and really any time during section 6 negotiations. If the DL/UA/AA A350 rates are the only acceptable target for our 777 rate, then what is the logic that allows us to ignore the fact that those same airlines don't pay that rate to their 767-300 pilots?
Do you really think our NC (regardless of who that might be) is going to be able to get in front of the company and the NMB and demand DL A350 pay for every FedEx WB pilot?
Connect the dots for me on that. We're going to use the industry as a benchmark, but only the parts that we like?
I made no judgements on what rates to use. I was simply trying to make the point that it doesn't matter that we can upgrade at 5 years and UPS cannot. Rates are rates and they should be industry standard at the very least regardless of how many pilot would be at the 5 year captain pay rate. We don't choose the fleet nor can control pilot age/retirement demographics which are the driving factors in upgrade time.
But if I was going to make the case, it would be that our previous contracts banded all of our WBs to everyone else's top paying aircraft. That's why our WB pay rate has been about the same as everyone else's 777 even though those other airlines had lower pay rates for their 767s and A300. So why does management get to make the convinient argument that it should be different now? In reality, we've had three pay rates: WB + BKO (777,MD11), WB (767,A300), & NB (757,737). If there was going to be a change (other than maybe a single blended rate ala IPA), it would be to band the 757 to our WB rate just like industry standard, WB rate meaning everyone else's top paying aircraft, just as in the past.
Originally Posted by
max8222
Yes asking for industry standard could give us PBS. Company would jump on that for industry pay rates. Then we would be fat another 500+ pilots.
Industry standard also includes profit sharing of 10% pre-tax up to $2.5B and 20% pre-tax above $2.5B, and cash over cash, and 8 holiday pay days, and retro of 4/4/14/first pay raise, and snap up provisions, and training pay of 5 hours a day, and full B fund contributions during LTD, and no cap on LTD, and no offsets on LTD, and 1:3.5 duty rig, and hotels during CQ and sub, and scope that protects extraterritorial flying and belly freight assurances. That doesn't include reserve rules and I can keep going on other items as well. How much far behind do we have to get before you stop using the PBS excuse? The fact we are line bidding is one of about three things we may be ahead on.