Originally Posted by
max8222
I use PBS as a quick example and the two of you run off on a tangent like I said I would trade your new born to keep PBS.
My friend is on the LEC at Delta and spent man hours duing their TA talking to pilots in their crew room and on the phone about the contract. So I assumed he was a good source.
I understand, everone can't know everything in a contract. Especially when its new and changing. But as for pbs, to me its a tired argument. You name pbs and whatever else and I can name two dozen other items, like I did earlier. But you are comparing one thing we have that can be argued is better than what the legacies have to my list of items that are merely industry standard, which we don't have. The argument doesn't work and it only weakens our resolve when we have pilots making arguments that only management would try to make at the table.
Originally Posted by
JustInFacts
Look at pay rate history. In 2000, the big pax carriers had huge contracts that dwarfed ours. UAL, for example, had their 777 captains getting $316 per hour in 2004. DAL's 777 rate was $320. How long did it take for us to get to that level? After all the bankruptcies, we became the lead by default. So no, our WB were not always tied to others 777 rates. Between the bankruptcies and 2016, UPS and us were the leaders. For example, DAL top 777 rate in 2006 was $186 while our MD11 rate, soon to be our 777 rate, was $225.
Now, just to clarify BKO, you do know that BKO isn't limited to the 777 and MD11. We have 767 trips that get BKO. There is nothing in the contract that limits BKO to any specific aircraft.
Which of these legacy airlines currently have B funds? I thought that their full retirement plan was a DC plan. And you might want to check how they determine the amount to contribute to that DC plan. With our A plan, you get funded while in LTD. If you hit your high 5 in the first 7 years of work, and then go out on LTD for 20+ years, you still get the full DB (A plan) benefit. The only reason that these plans were ever refered to as A and B plans is because the DB (A) plan was the primary retirement mechanism and the DC (B) plan was a secondary mechanism meant to make up for mandatory retirement before you could collect SS and medicare benefits. That history seems to have gotten lost.
Someone should be once the pay rate comparison tables for the 2006 and 2011 TAs and it showed our WB rates more or less in line with everyobody else's top pay rates. And I understand that that was more becuase others went through bk and came down. Which makes my point even stronger. We never went through bk so why shouldn't we keep up with other's top pay rates when they have had to go through bk?
I also understand that bko is not limited to any specific aircraft. But the 767 only has about two flights that long. And none of the other fleet types do any of those long flights.
Lastly, AA/DA/UA all contribute 17% to their pilots' 401k. Its their equivalent of us getting years of servicee when we are on LTD. And they get 17% while on LTD. And their LTDs have no offsets.
My point in all this Ive posted on this thread is, lets not argue on behalf of management. They certainly don't need the help. Lets focus on arguments FOR increases and different areas.