Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
Rights to be organized ? We have that "right" now. We've used that right; 3 times. JA is abiding by our collective wishes by protecting us from the very union that we just said no to, for the second time. The very union that USA said no to, and kicked out. And Colgan said no to. The very union that is sueing SkW in some bizarro deparate attempt to disable the pilot organization that we have (hope you enjoy your dues money being used for that).
Our Holding Letter would require him to merge seniority list. That would lead to a representation vote. That is what he does not want. I don't think it has anything to do with the SKW pilots' wishes. As for sueing, you quickly forget that a federal judge had to put an injunction on SKW management to force them to comply with federal laws during the last drive. Why did a judge have to tell JA to abide by federal law? I'm sure its because he wants his pilots to have the basic right to organize.
Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
Let me state categorically that JA will not cut any deal which will encumber SkW pilots, who have already turned down a union multiple times, to be forced into a union. Based on his comments in ORD, I'd say that the pilots of XJT will have the final word on a sale, and in my opinion, JA wins either way. Bought with his provisos, or bought at auction in pieces. Or not bought at all. But he won't hurt us.
Let me state categorically that JA will not cut any deal which will encumber SKW Inc. He is a very astute businessman. If the deal is right, he would do whatever was best for the shareholders regardless of his "at-will" employees.
You keep forgetting that the CAL letter has kept the door open on XJT to come to terms with CAL with savings on the magnitude that SKW was offering and stay independent. There wont be any pieces in that case.
[quote=TonyWilliams;377956]
Obviously, CAL wants to cut a better deal with XJT, or use SkW (sounds like we're moving in to CAL anyway, XJT or not). I'm not sure what the best answer for XJT is on that, but I'm sure that all the parties involved knows what's best for them. Unfortunately, the airline business is replete with examples of folks holding out until total failure.[/qoute]
I wouldn't be surprised if SKW starts doing business with CAL even if the XJT falls through. I could see SKW doing something like Colgan is now.
Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
Ok, I got the number from somebody else's post. What number would you like me to use ? I don't care how much it was; it wasn't a penny of my money. How about a gazillion dollars ? Let's see, full page ad in USA Today ($150,000-ish maybe?), advertising in airports (tens of thousands), legal bills still ongoing (staff attorneys don't work for free), full time ALPA officer shacked up in SLC for the whole drive (some five figure amount), lots of free drinks and meals ($$$$$$$ thanks, by the way :-), travel expenses and hotels for organizing committee ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$). Give me a number.
Ok, I'll tell you where you got that figure from. That $5 million was money allocated from the ALPA MCF for the purpose of organizing pilot groups, not just SKW. This money is/was also for SKW, AWA/USA, Colgan, CommuteAir, JetBlue and others I can't remember right now. This is not a one time expense. Its money that can/will be used as necessary going forward. As for the SKW drive itself, its more like $300k that was spent.
Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
One thing that I've learned in my short time around the unionized airline business is that those "rights" get trampled on more times than we "at-will" employees at SkW. Makes for a good sound bite, though.
Kind of sounds like the FAA NATCA relationship. But you wouldn't have given being part of NATCA just because "those 'rights' get trampled on." Its not a sound bite and your prior union experience should tell you that.
Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
Ok, well we've discussed this. JA is against it, the pilots at SkW would be against it. Even if JA didn't care whether we got screwed over in the deal or not, he doesn't have to look far in the airline world to see what a mess that can be VERY quickly.
I agree that JA is against it. I was just responding to someone who said it couldn't happen when in fact it could regardless of SKW Inc being ONLY a holding company.
But even if he wasn't, if there was a SKW/XJT seniority integration, it would be negotiated between XJT MEC and SKW management. Much different than when two pilot groups try to negotiate between themselves.
Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
That's a good point. If XJT guys vote to be integrated into a non-union list, more power to them. Yes, they should be cool with that, if that's what they choose. But I can imagine them signing off on that, only to start union drive #4 at SkW a week later.... which is fine, but frankly, I'm personally tired of the drama with that.
And if that union drive fails, what do we have ? P*ssed off union guys in our ranks.
There wouldn't be a union drive a week later. It would trigger be a representation election immediately. Which means they can decertify if the majority would be "cool with that, if thats what they choose." If the union drive fails, you would have at least less than 50% p*ssed off anyways. Kind of like you had 35% of SKW pilots p*ssed off right now.
Originally Posted by
rickair7777
So what is a "pilot"? Are you saying that we are not real "pilots" like you guys???
What about US Airways and Cactus?
They are union as well.