Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
We're saying the same stuff over and over. Yes, the status quo is exactly what you claim. But that's not what JA is offering.
Well, you were saying you have the right to organize. I was just saying JA doesn't want to integrate because that would trigger that right again. This is thee only reason why he doesn't want to.
Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
I doubt we'll come to a meeting of the minds on this issue.
Nothing to agree on. I stated fact on the federal judge's injunction against SKW management during the last drive.
Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
And we probably won't agree on this either. But, I'd be happy to bet a sizable amount of money on your assertion.
I claim that JA will not disregard the workforce, any more than he has in past airline purchases. Obviously, JA has a duty to the shareholders. Again, I'm confident enough on that to put my money where my mouth is.
I'd be happy to put the money in an escrow account, winner take all. How confident are you ? Say, $1000 ? You pick the date by which all the horrors will happen to us bad "at-will" employees.
JA will do what is best for the shareholders. In this case, I agree that he wont disregard the pilots (because thats in the best interest of the shareholders). There is a good reason why he doesn't want any of this labor groups unionized and its not because he is looking out for them as much as the shareholders.
As for "horror stories." I only hear the real bad ones like DD. It seems like only judges can make SKW do the right thing sometimes.
Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
The US government air traffic controllers have voluntarily voted in an open shop union every time is was offered. And for good reason. Pilots at most airlines have a closed shop union, presumably for equally good reasons or fears. So far, those reasons or fears haven't manifested themselves at SkW.
In ATC, those rights are trampled, disregarded, or violated in a manner that would make Mesa's Mr. Ornstein blush. The ATC union is largely powerless for over 600 days now to stop unilaterally imposed work and pay rules, and return to the contract.
None of this has, or is happening at SkW. So, your question is would I give up the parts of the ATC contract to be "bought out". Don't know... anything is probably better than what is currently in place.
The more logical question is would I make the changes JA wants if I were an XJT guy ? Don't know. Sorry, too personal of a decision to put myself in your shoes.
By law, federal government employees can only have open shops (if they can even unionize at all). Not so with airlines. But most airlines are open shops or union shops.
Anyways, I guess you are right. As at-will employees you don't have many rights and since you don't have a contract, there is nothing for management to trample, disregard, and violate. So it kind of solves the whole problem to begin with. But just imagine if you did have a contract with your current management that honors whatever work rules they have that day. They wouldn't trample, disregard, or violate it.
But as an air traffic controller you would be willing to be bought out by the lowest bidder? Then you would be working for LM.
As for what JA wants, it depends on what he could offer us in return. It could be a good deal in the long run for the XJT pilots.
Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
Ya, I agree it would be much different than recent ALPA seniority integrations. Thankfully so.
The fact that it would only involve one pilot group would make all the difference in the world.
Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
Again, JA won't do this if the only option is basically forcing SkW pilots into a union that we don't want. How much ya willing to bet ?
I agree that JA wont do this if the only option is basically forcing SKW pilots into a union. But its not because the pilots don't want it. Its because JA doesn't want it.