Originally Posted by
VisionWings
I agree with you about a lot. Except your ability to read. I said you deserve the averages plus” a pay rise adjusted for inflation” that means to me to match Southwest rate of 379.10 for top rate plus 4% back dated to last year. lol. So $394.26 retro active to last year. Those are the new starting rates. Plus they get 2% Mbcp so we should get that and the 18% DC.
Perhaps I missed something..
My post was a response to the quote:
Originally Posted by
VisionWings
Additionally when comparing metrics we use these carriers :”Amcrican Airlines, Delta Air Lines, United Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Alaska Airlines, JetBlue Airways, Hawaiian Airlines, Spirit Airlines, and Allegiant Air.”
so when we are being compensated we should receive the average of those carrier rates excluding those still negotiating. With a pay rise adjusted for inflationary increases.
That last sentence is telling . . . the AVERAGE OF THOSE (9) CARRIER RATES.
Well, according to the APLA contract comparison for Jan 1, 2025, the YR 1 CA pay for AA/DL/UA is $344.25. As you mentioned, the SW pay is higher $347.76. The pay for HA, AK, B6 and NK are lower at $313.98, 332.91, 326.09 and 270.17, respectively. All pilot pay for each company follows a similar trend across yearly pay bands (for both CA and FO) and keep in mind these are 2025 #s (pay rates increase yearly for inflation to the end of the contract). I'm unsure of what other inflationary pay raise you might have been referring to but, of course, that would need to be included. NOTE: Allegiant's #s aren't included in the comparison and despite your inclusion in your quote, I ignored (as they are paid less than even us).
The AVERAGE of AA/DL/UA/SW/HA/AK/B6 and NK pay is less than what is paid to AA/DL/UA. Even when you don't consider NK or B6 (still negotiating or whatever they're doing), SW is only a few dollars more (between 2-6) for each year, while HA and AK are both over $10 less per year. At the end of the day, we're discussing pennies/small dollar amounts, but i just want to make myself clear. I do NOT want AVERAGE of the TOP 9 or 8 or 4 or even 2 airlines. I want THE TOP. I'm pretty sure everyone else will snap up and we'll be the top until everyone renegotiates again (DL in a year I'm told).
With pilot pay, to me, there's a pride element to it, a retro compensation element to it but also a "statement" element to it. We have been compensated less since roughly 9/11 (that was in 2001) for doing the same work. We have endured more change, a more hostile work environment in terms of mgt vs. labor and we've been considered LESS THAN by the industry because our airline is less than. That doesn't sit well with me. When UA was negotiating and DL came out w/ their rates, UA pilots didn't say "Hey, yeah we want the average now" or even "we want what DL got." They negotiated for MORE THAN DL. In turn, DL snapped up. That's a win-win. How is that not evident to our pilot force?
This mgt team has shown me 2 main things - they really don't know how to run an airline from a operationally superior standpoint (no wifi, network, haphazard customer service policies, etc.) AND they really don't give 2 sh!ts about its labor.
TBH, that is actually fine w/ me. If this company made $1 profit per quarter but stayed in business, I'd be fine with that as long as we're paid more than everyone else. The obvious lack of business acumen/savvy, disdane for my contributions to the company as well as ownerships continuance to keep an obvious buffoon in place as CEO aren't anything I set up, allow or control. The company is what it is and I need to compensated for having to DEAL with what it is. People, the industry, whoever can say what they want about on time performance, other metrics, etc. but as long as they're saying "But at least they pay their pilots . . ." then I'll do the most in terms of trying to make this a better place.
As of now, I do my job - the main part of which, hopefully in a year or two, will be to vote down any POS TA that has lesser rates.