Originally Posted by
VisionWings
you’re ignoring the success of Southwest Airlines. With their bags fly free model they had and an open cabin configuration with snacks people loved it. There are low cost models that work. Sounds like to me the failure point has been implementation. I do believe we can’t just have a product like legacy carriers and sell tickets like them. You need a product that is different to bring people in. But this ultra low cost model has failed the industry. We are a parasite in the industry by your own admission. We don’t deserve the same pay because our product isn’t good. So we should morally all quit and work at a regional until we are called to the golden four flight deck. How about we demand fair pay and let the company sort it out. We don’t manage an airline but your point of model change being an issue is also delusional. Markets evolve or the business fails. Go look what’s happening over at intel. As a business we need to evolve to be in line with customer expectations or we are without customers. Well if we’re gonna be without customers and end up like intel we may as well cash in on the pay we can achieve through collective bargaining before the inevitable end of the ULCC model. Since according to you businesses can’t change before they go bankrupt. Guess what maybe this admin allows for carriers to be acquired and then we win even bigger because frontier failed and Alaska/Hawaiian or some other real carrier picked up the company merged them into their ranks.
you’re a defeatist and you’re showing us the state of your own frustration and projecting it onto us. Best of luck over there.
Where did i say anything about accepting less??? I am a realist. I think it is beyond absurd that your management is seeking a cost neutral contract: I was shocked to hear that from several friends there. I would say you are on your way to being released if that is true. You all deserve a huge raise like everybody else - including us at G4.
Where you can criticize me is that I don't think pilots at G4, NK, F9, etc are reasonable when we claim that we fly the same aircraft and therefore must be paid the same amount. It just ignores common sense and no mediator or gov't official takes it seriously, it is us just sitting in an echo chamber. We had multiple mediators at G4 tell our former NC in negotiations that saying "we fly the same aircraft and therefore must be paid the same" was not helpful to the process and just makes progress worse. So tell me, how does living in that echo chamber help us? It is no different than wishing away the RLA so we could strike whenever we wanted. Is the RLA unfair? of course it is but is the world we live in. IMO wishing that all 320 pilots were paid the same and the paint job and pax profile shouldn't matter is no different than wishing the RLA didn't make it so hard for us to have a job action. Again echo chamber.
Wall street analysts, gov't officials, legacy pilots, airline execs, flying public, etc. none of them believe that G4 or F9 are competitors or peers with the legacies. It is way easier to get hired at G4 then it is DL and the pay reflects that somewhat: supply and demand. Do I hate that this is how it works? Of course. But even during the greatest hiring spree of our generation G4 somehow was able to still fill those new hire classes. I was shocked and it sucked because it cost leverage in negotiations but that is the reality: people who cannot get hired at a legacy will apply at G4 (and presumably F9) and get hired which allows management to pay less for labor. If there were unlimited pilot positions at the legacies then G4 would be forced to pay more for their pilot labor but again, not how the real world works.
Should we paid similar amounts? of course. Between 5-10% at G4 is fair imo. I haven't slept in a hotel for work (besides training) since covid. Wouldn't trade that extra time with family, hobbies, etc. for an extra $20/hr and huge portion of G4 pilots feel the same. I'm sure several of you went to F9 and stayed for a reason (good bases, QOL, seniority, etc) and I doubt most of you would upend your life to start somewhere new because some guy in DTW is making 7.8% more than you are.