Originally Posted by
captnate702
Where did i say anything about accepting less??? I am a realist. I think it is beyond absurd that your management is seeking a cost neutral contract: I was shocked to hear that from several friends there. I would say you are on your way to being released if that is true. You all deserve a huge raise like everybody else - including us at G4.
Where you can criticize me is that I don't think pilots at G4, NK, F9, etc are reasonable when we claim that we fly the same aircraft and therefore must be paid the same amount. It just ignores common sense and no mediator or gov't official takes it seriously, it is us just sitting in an echo chamber. We had multiple mediators at G4 tell our former NC in negotiations that saying "we fly the same aircraft and therefore must be paid the same" was not helpful to the process and just makes progress worse. So tell me, how does living in that echo chamber help us? It is no different than wishing away the RLA so we could strike whenever we wanted. Is the RLA unfair? of course it is but is the world we live in. IMO wishing that all 320 pilots were paid the same and the paint job and pax profile shouldn't matter is no different than wishing the RLA didn't make it so hard for us to have a job action. Again echo chamber.
Wall street analysts, gov't officials, legacy pilots, airline execs, flying public, etc. none of them believe that G4 or F9 are competitors or peers with the legacies. It is way easier to get hired at G4 then it is DL and the pay reflects that somewhat: supply and demand. Do I hate that this is how it works? Of course. But even during the greatest hiring spree of our generation G4 somehow was able to still fill those new hire classes. I was shocked and it sucked because it cost leverage in negotiations but that is the reality: people who cannot get hired at a legacy will apply at G4 (and presumably F9) and get hired which allows management to pay less for labor. If there were unlimited pilot positions at the legacies then G4 would be forced to pay more for their pilot labor but again, not how the real world works.
Should we paid similar amounts? of course. Between 5-10% at G4 is fair imo. I haven't slept in a hotel for work (besides training) since covid. Wouldn't trade that extra time with family, hobbies, etc. for an extra $20/hr and huge portion of G4 pilots feel the same. I'm sure several of you went to F9 and stayed for a reason (good bases, QOL, seniority, etc) and I doubt most of you would upend your life to start somewhere new because some guy in DTW is making 7.8% more than you are.
This is actually a well thought out and excellently stated thought process. Except, it ignores the obvious.
And that is that EVERY business has to evolve. Every single one. From the lemonade stand of the 8 yr old in the front yard to Amazon. NO ONE can stand pat on their original idea and expect prolonged success. This is so widely well known that NOT doing it is actually an anomaly.
So, yes, we are in an echo chamber if we assume that all of our owners' (that's F9, G4, NK and even JB) have absolutely no intention of doing anything different and are only short term profit seeking. Buy low and sell high, right? Is that what's happening? If F9, G4 and NK looking to be bought out? Perhaps, but i'll believe it when it happens (and the DoJ allows it).
There is another possibility - perhaps ownership (and bondholders) just want to FOREGO making a product that competes (regardless of how long it takes) and slowly watch the business crumble (and lose value) until deletion. That could be profitable as long as the fire sale at the end is greater than the original investment (not always the case - esp for bondholders).
Given that we as labor can never know that either way, our smartest response/action is the same. Labor would do ourselves the greatest favor and force management's hand sooner rather than later on the sink or evolve question. Regardless of which echo chamber case you mention, why would ANYONE who works here want to be paid less for 15 or 10 or even 2 years from now if the decision will be to either leave or get a new contract w/ a new company?
So, as mentioned earlier by many others, the only logical solution as labor is to force the answer as soon as possible.
FWIW, I would GLADLY welcome a sale of F9...which pretty much guarantees it won't happen.