Originally Posted by TTail

Long ago I did pilot negotiations...

The "first" offer that the pilot group (or even the MEC) sees is about the 1000th offer that that company has made. I'm guessing the JNC has been saying no for you pretty much since negotiations started last year.

That's what the survey data is for. If the offer meets the expectations of the survey data (as a whole... not one pilot's crazy issue that nobody else gives a crap about) then that's the offer you'll eventually see. Most pilots generally are pretty reasonable and realistic in what they are willing to accept when they privately respond to the survey questions. It's when they run their mouth on a web forum or in the crew room, that they are (generally) trying to be macho and take an unrealistic position. That said, there are certainly pilots out there who are very disconnected from the world and expect things that no company could ever deliver. There is aways a 10%-20% that is going to vote not because their expectations could never be met.