Originally Posted by
FangsF15
$15 Billion so far in California, with nothing to show for it. Total estimate of $130B, as of now. I'd about guarantee it will skyrocket from there.
What will it take to get ROI for that investment, even if it gets finished? I don't have an answer, but it's a fair question to ask, and I'm highly skeptical it is worth it.
I'm sorry again. I'm a big casual rail nerd. I gotta speak up here too.
It's expensive but we have to start somewhere. HSR and rail in general is critical for our future.
1. The roads and cities can only fit so many cars. The geometry just isn't there. You can make a highway 20 lanes wide, but it will still be clogged by the weakest bottleneck. The highway may be wide but the destinations are not. The only cure for traffic is to get cars off the roads.
2. Climate disaster isn't slowing down. We are selling off our future. Even if you "don't believe" in climate change eventually oil will run out. We need the infrastructure in place sooner than later.
3. Long term expense. Private automobiles is by far the most energy inefficient and expensive way to transport people. This is a burden not just on individuals but the their economy. The cost is not just the energy but also the destruction of material and human life, and ultimately pointless industries like auto insurance and litigation. They are leeches on our economy. Rail has a up front cost but pays off over time.
4. I believe as we build more rail cost will come down over time. It's expensive because we don't know how. We haven't done any rail building since... The 40s. We outsource every single little thing and hire consultants for everything. Everyone takes their cut. In other countries they do their work "in house".
5. Our political system is structured to make it difficult to build things. There are too many legal challenges, years of studies, and general nimbyism that may be too politically powerful. This can be changed with enough political will and consensus.
6. America doesn't view rail as actual infrastructure. We see rail as a toy or luxury, like it's a Disney ride or something to splurge on. We don't see it as actual critical infrastructure the way we look at highways. No one is worried about continually expanding highways because of course it's critical infrastructure. But somehow, rail is not. Same thing with airports. We've just built our world centered so heavily on the car for so long that our brains cannot comprehend anything else. We got to start somewhere and the time is now.
7. Related to #3, but rail is BY FAR the most energy efficient to move anything long distance. It is by far the most frictionless method of propulsion known to man. We should be moving as much as we can on it for the long term economics. It creates wealth like all useful infrastructure.
8. Rail is undisputably the most convenient and comfortable method of travel for distances around 300-1000 miles. I would argue for longer distances if trains are fast and cheap enough. They can be located in the center of a city, do not require security, can be boarded and debated in less than a minute, they have 20+ doors instead of 1, they have more space, bigger windows, they don't have to worry about weather, atc delays, turbulence, or traffic, and they can have lounge and dining cars. Nothing can hold a candle to good HSR, especially when it has a expansive network or low speed rail to connect it to more areas.
Anyways, thanks for listening. Rail is the future. It was a mistake to over build for cars. It was a mistake to rip up 90% of our old rail lines. Thanks for listening to my nerdy rant. Peace