and what's scary, is the 4000 doesn't include all the guys from ATA, aloha, etc....i think it was listed at a minimum of 1000 furloughs from the ATA guys alone....i also have a feeling things are going to get worse, i'd expect to see more problems over here at trans states in the future, maybe chautauqua, and eagle also given the mess we're all going through with american....dark clouds ahead.