Originally Posted by
SR22
Thanks to RedGuy I now know the meaning of the word "flame-bait".
I did not say ALL 121 operators and crews operate in compliance with this definition, though I would wager most do. Every working pilot reading this thread, myself included, is probably well aware that many operations exist that have the pilots on-call 24/7. That's the point of this thread!
It doesn't matter how many other operations are violating the law besides yours. If you went into court and argued that you thought it was okay to speed because the other guy was doing it, do you think the judge would buy it? On-call is not rest!
Prove me wrong, or go haunt some other thread!
I'm not flame baiting you, you stated that 121 crews abide by bla bla bla. The reason most 121 crews can have set time off is that probably 90% of 121 is the airlines, WHICH ARE SCHEDULED!!! It seems you hold 121 to some gold standard, but in the end it's no different than any other operation. There's scheduled 121 and unscheduled 121, same goes for 135. And the 121 on demand operators are running their crews the same way 135 on demand operators do.
BTW Why are you on a crusade about this again? Your not going to change an industry that's been operating this way since before the FAA even existed. That was a flame bait BTW!
The rule in the FAR does not say that being on call is not rest, it doesn't even define rest other than "Not to be assigned any duties" and as far as I'm concerned being on call is not a duty since I'm not at work, I'm sitting comfortably at home. In the end being safe all comes down to your own intelligence, if your tired turn down the trip! It's that simple! So I really don't care what the court says, until they change the rule, I'm going to be on call. I will stop "Haunting" your thread now since I will never change your mind about this, and you will never change mine.
BTW here's 135.263 and 135.267 for your reading enjoyment!
§ 135.263 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: All certificate holders.
(a) A certificate holder may assign a flight crew member and a flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time only when the applicable requirements of §§135.263 through 135.271 are met.
(b) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember to any duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period.
(c) Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that a certificate holder requires of a flight crewmember and provides to transport the crewmember to an airport at which he is to serve on a flight as a crewmember, or from an airport at which he was relieved from duty to return to his home station, is not considered part of a rest period.
(d) A flight crewmember is not considered to be assigned flight time in excess of flight time limitations if the flights to which he is assigned normally terminate within the limitations, but due to circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder or flight crewmember (such as adverse weather conditions), are not at the time of departure expected to reach their destination within the planned flight time.
§ 135.267 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: Unscheduled one- and two-pilot crews.
(a) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember, and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment, for flight time as a member of a one- or two-pilot crew if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed—
(1) 500 hours in any calendar quarter.
(2) 800 hours in any two consecutive calendar quarters.
(3) 1,400 hours in any calendar year.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, during any 24 consecutive hours the total flight time of the assigned flight when added to any other commercial flying by that flight crewmember may not exceed—
(1) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or
(2) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots qualified under this part for the operation being conducted.
(c) A flight crewmember's flight time may exceed the flight time limits of paragraph (b) of this section if the assigned flight time occurs during a regularly assigned duty period of no more than 14 hours and—
(1) If this duty period is immediately preceded by and followed by a required rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours of rest;
(2) If flight time is assigned during this period, that total flight time when added to any other commercial flying by the flight crewmember may not exceed—
(i) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or
(ii) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots; and
(3) If the combined duty and rest periods equal 24 hours.
(d) Each assignment under paragraph (b) of this section must provide for at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24-hour period that precedes the planned completion time of the assignment.
(e) When a flight crewmember has exceeded the daily flight time limitations in this section, because of circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder or flight crewmember (such as adverse weather conditions), that flight crewmember must have a rest period before being assigned or accepting an assignment for flight time of at least—
(1) 11 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by not more than 30 minutes;
(2) 12 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by more than 30 minutes, but not more than 60 minutes; and
(3) 16 consecutive hours of rest if the flight time limitation is exceeded by more than 60 minutes.
(f) The certificate holder must provide each flight crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive hours each in each calendar quarter.