The issues in pay are as simple as supply and demand. I don't mean to hijack your thred I just want to add a point. The main problem is we all know we don't dictate demand, thats in the hands of the pax and management. Where we go wrong as a industry and a national Pilot group is that we don't control the supply of pilots. The airline industry is one of the few professions that allows any one with the money to buy some ratings and time and boom you have a job if one is available(demand). According to the AAMC(American Association of Medical Colleges) 546,817 applied to medical school 17,759 applicants actually got in. Dental school had 11,000 applications I could not find how many got in. I guess the big question is how can we do this. I don't exactly know but i do know if we had some type of certification besides the the ticket the feds give out. A simple non-factual example 50,000 ALPA certified working today every year 1,000 pilots are certified and thats it no more subtract retired piots from the total number well the industry has only x number of pilots to choose from. I understand the theory of power in numbers but the power is undercut by the surplus of pilots. Outside of the US they don't have a surplus they have a shortage the same shortage that we have been talking about for years that just has not come to pass in the last 20-30 years. I think this idea can cause a shortage or at least even out the number. Simple supply and demand. I also think ALPA continues to drop the ball on providing information to CFI's building their time. The majority of CFI's don't always understand what they are getting themselves into as far as actual pay work rules and quality of life when the fill out that mesa application or other companies that lower the bar.