Originally Posted by
Pilotpip
You are the lowest paid in the industry.
It seems to me that under the TA, our hourly rates are comparable to other carriers and we would also have block or better.
Oh, and how many days can they take away from you through J/M? What happens next time staffing is bad and they start taking away vacation? I haven't heard anything about minimum staffing levels to prevent that.
I think the TA will put pilots in the driver's seat in junior available situations. The TA contains penalty clauses if JA's are not reduced by at least 30%.
PBS is great when the pilots have control of it....PBS wouldn't give you guys anything with management in control.
The Comair contract has lots of specific language about building lines and scheduling. You are right, it would be nice to have the same type of language in the TA.
The worst part about this TA...the QOL improvements bring Mesa on par with some (not all) other carriers at best....the next round of contracts will put them back on the bottom as everybody else gets better.
It would be great to gain an industry leading contract. I do not think that is possible with the state the industry is in. The TA only lasts two years, how many other carriers will even enter negotiation during this time? I do not think anyone is going to win big gains in the next two years.
I don't know why I'm arguing with you...Thankfully, you can't vote.
I guess it's because you have an emotional stake in this, like many of us. You raise good questions about the PBS language and control. My opinion remains that the improvements are good enough in the present climate that a "yes" vote is justified. Obviously, everyone has to weigh the pros and cons for themselves.
Oh, and while you've moved up fast, you might as well get comfy. What airlines are hiring right now and will be any time in the next 5 years?
Jan/Feb 08 when I was making decisions was a different world than we are now living in. With hindsight, I still feel comfortable with the decisons that I have made.
Originally Posted by
Airfix
The DashRocks,
Line guarantee, is no doubt a good thing....However there is no guarantee that the company will create lines more than minimum guarantee. Therefore this does not constitute a pay increase.
My opinion that pay will increase under the TA is based on the change from segment pay to block-or-better pay.
Block or better...will affect pilots in ORD and JFK more than other bases....What about the people in other domiciles. Don't those pilots also deserve a pay raise and don't they work equally as hard as those in ORD and JFK? FO's get a 2% or so pay rise in 2010, don't captains deserve a pay raise too?
Yes. We are all underpaid and overworked. But, is it realistic to expect a percentage pay raise across the board when pilots are on furlough? What should the MEC's priority be, winning a raise for pilots lucky enough to still be on the job, or trying to get everyone back to work? The TA will increase pay, but does contain an equitable across the board raise.
Under the new contract I don't ever expect to have the company pay the 200% JA pay. Let's face it the only time we got JA'd as when there was insufficient reserve coverage....when there is insufficient reserve coverage it now becomes a legal JA. No need to pay 200%.
The way I read it, all JA flying and all flying outside the footprint of the original schedule is paid at 200%.
Under old system if I had 7 days vacation I could still have at least 9 days off (28 day bid). Now I only get 9 days (31 day bid) or 8 days (30 day bid) off. Why should vacation cut into your days off?...surely you could just load each week of vacation as 21 hours (or 3 hours per day) into PBS and still keep the 11 day off and reduce our number of hours PBS tries to assign by the number of hours we were on vacation
You probably have lived through the cancelled vacation horror show. I have not. In your shoes, I would read the vacation language of the TA very carefully. I cannot argue or counter what you have stated.
I need to have a guarantee that open time will remain available to line holders for a period of time after the SAP to permit me to make a trip commutable. How will QOL be improved for anybody under this contract especially considering the way pairigns are constructed is unchanged?QOL is a wash and is not improved under the new contract. For it to improve I need to be able to trade partial pairings to make my line commutable on the front and back of my trip.
My understanding is that drops and swaps will be easier because the process will be more automated than it is today. I have not yet been able to get a swap/drop approved in my Mesa career.
How will you feel about working under this TA for another 5 or more years?
My hope is that in two years when the TA expires, we will be in a position to gain more without having to work under this agreement for 5 years.
What is relevant is what are we worth? What responsibility do we have? What should we be getting paid? How much rest and time off should we get given our responsibilities and our time away from home?
Vote no, please.
One of the reasons why I started this discussion was so that I could learn more, and be even better informed the next time we have a TA to vote on; one that I am eligible to vote on.
You have raised good points and expressed them well. After weighing everything, you advocate a "no" vote. I cannot say you are wrong, I just have reached a different conclusion. Thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts.
Originally Posted by
Pilotpip
Agreed.
Dash, I really want to see you guys get a much better contract. It would be a win for you, and really a win for all of us. There's no reason you guys should be putting up with the BS you put up with. This TA has way too many holes in it and doesn't come close to addressing the QOL issues you guys have compared to other companies.
Mesa going under would probably mean me getting my job back in short order. I don't want to see you guys on the street any more than I want to be on the street. To wish that on somebody is beyond stupid. However the undercutting has to stop somewhere. Quick upgrades don't do anything for anybody if there isn't anywhere better to go.
I too would like to see us all do better. We each are just going to evaluate what we think is possible and reasonable to achieve at the current time.
Originally Posted by
DublinFlyer
...it is far too important for our success to throw in the towel now. I don't think we can do much better right away. I don't think we'll have another TA for a long time. But at least whenever we do have one, it won't be subpar -- and they will know we expect MORE....I'm expecting some respect. NO JA's, trip and duty rigs would be nice. Captain pay increases, block or better and line guarantee not tied to PBS. I want the PBS language changed so I'm not so fearful of what the company might do with it. All those things plus more. The fact that none of those things were in there tells me the company doesn't respect us, and our voice isn't being heard loud enough. Perhaps when we vote this down, the company will start listening a little bit more.
I will not say that after putting this much thought into it, you are wrong to reach the conclusion that a "no" vote is required. Each of us weighs things a little differently and exercises the right to vote. I cannot vote as an apprentice member. Perhaps there is wisdom in requiring some experience at the company before someone is allowed to vote on this important matter.
I respect the opinions of the MAG pilots whose experiences are different and maybe often harsher than mine. I understand why many are choosing to reject this TA. However, I stand by my opinion that the TA is enough of an improvement in the current chaotic state of the industry and gives us a foundation to build an even better agreement in two years time.
Last edited by TheDashRocks; 11-29-2008 at 10:22 AM.
Reason: spelling and highlightins