Originally Posted by FlyJSH

If I don't like it, then quit. But, as you say, I can't quit. I guess I just need to stay here and take it like a man. But what good is having a job when management can issue a new memo cutting my pay, and I have no recourse?

You say there are better ways to handle management. What are they? The Colgan Pilot Group? It was a bunch of well intentioned pilots who wanted to work WITH management to make positive changes. They soon learned management had no intention of making any changes.

Colgan has managed to avoid furloughs. I appreciate that. But the biggest reason Colgan has kept flying is that we fly turboprops. As a whole, turboprop operators have fared much better than the jet counterparts.



Poor management allowed the unions? Extortion? Management had a choice: accept or reject the deal. In other words, if they didn't like it, they should have quit.

When I got hired at Colgan, I knew what the pay and benefits would be. I accepted them. What I DID NOT accept was having my pay cut by losing run ups, repos, and reducing cancellations. Nor did I agree to have my paycheck "accidentally" shorted a few hours every month.

Jobs don't "belong" to anyone. Not even management jobs. If I am hired and accept the offer of renumeration, I expect my employer to honor his end of the bargain. Had Colgan maintained "status quo" from the time I was hired and not shorted my check, I probably would not be pushing for a union.

I could have left, but I signed a CONTRACT. And I FULFILLED MY PART OF MY CONTRACT. It was management who reneged.



Whether UAW, IBT, UMW, ALPA, Iornworkers, Machinists, all union's first priority is to protect the health and welfare of its members. No one at Colgan expects huge pay increases. Most list QOL and work rules above pay. We don't have the right to "every dime". But management should not have the right to take away our benefits with no hope of getting them back.



For companies the size of Colgan, a reasonable (not extravagant) health care plan can pay for itself through lower absenteeism and better employee long term health. But, I don't think health care is a big issue for the pilots now.

((I am happy for you that you can afford your own health care. You are quite lucky. My guess is you are maybe 30: just wait another 10 years or so.))






If "the people that wanted unions were the most incompetent", then a majority of Colgan pilots would not be able to pass a check ride. But all of us did. We are all competent as defined by the FAA and Colgan. And I am not a screw up: no missed trips, no lates, no sick calls (knock wood), no reasons to write a report. Maybe you left because you were afraid of an upcoming PC?




Your pay numbers for the big three are skewed. The hourly pay for US and foreign workers is very close. The difference is Nissan and Toyota have only had factories in the US for 20 years or so, while the big three have been here since the beginning. Nissan and Toyota have no retirees pensions to pay... yet. Twenty years from now, everyone will be paying the $80 per hour you spoke of. Unless of course, those workers who were there for 30 years should just be happy they had a job and forget about a pension.... for the good of the company.

If it is a poor decision for Colgan to "let" the unions in, then Colgan should have done something over the last year to keep the pilots happy. Things like lines that had more flying per day and more days off: something that would have cost the company NOTHING while improving our QOL. Instead, management's only communications with us were to tell us how our jobs just got a little ******ier.

Labor cost may be the highest single expense a company has, but lets do the math for Colgan and its pilots. Lets take a round trip IAH to CLL (maybe the most profitable route in Texas) as an example.
Ticket costs about $128.
Block is about 1.7 hours.
Average load 17 pax (50%)
Assuming a third year CA and second year FO, the pilots cost $117 and change or about $6.90 per passenger (again assuming a 50% load).

Now lets assume a union gets in, the pilots are able to "extort" a 20%, across the board, pay increase. Ticket prices would SKYROCKET $1.38 EACH!

If things are that tight at Colgan, and other airlines (most of whom pay more) can do it cheaper, the we should lose the flying. Ahh the beauty of market capitalism.


(I used 20% based on the difference between our second year Q pay vs. Horizon's)




When we "picked up the slack" and lost our collateral pay (run ups, etc.) did BC, BH, DB, Dot, or any of the others cut their pay a few percent?? No, they did not. So, like you say, it is we, the pilots at the bottom, who suffered.

Yeah, Colgan was hanging on by the skin of its teeth. Every airline had trouble for two quarters: union and non union alike. But now that oil is at a two year low, has management come back and said, "Thanks for taking the hit this summer. We are giving you back what we took."
No.
But they are posting our ontime rates. I could have been 100% if only I could have ****** out an airplane half a dozen times last month.






For foreign airlines to come it, it would take a change of federal law governing cabotage. If that happens, all US airlines would be in trouble since the many foreign airlines are subsidized by their government.

There are many lawers.... the question is could I afford one? If I, a second year FO, pay 1.95% dues, that will work out to something like $500 per year. My guess is a good aviation lawyer earns about $500 per hour. So if I ever need one, he better work fast.





I have had auto insurance since I turned 16. In the last 25 years I have probably paid between $30 and 40 THOUSAND. In that time, I have received maybe $3000 in claims. Sounds like a pretty lousy investment until that one day (heaven forbid) when some guy runs a red light, hits me, and then blames me for the accident.

Similar protection is provided by the unions. They collect dues from all of us, and pay for legal representation if any one of us needs it.

As for unions helping to keep a bad pilot around, the most anti union CA I have flown with is also one of the worst, yet without a union, he is still around. Union or not, there will always be that one guy that should go, but keeps hanging around.



The rest of your posts are pretty much the same. You misquote the dues (3% vs 1.95% ALPA and about 1.5% for IBT). You keep harping on unions destroying a company.... maybe you are right. Just look how badly Southwest and Fedex are doing.

If you were here, I am glad you left. You didn't like it here and rather than try to improve things, you just took your toys and went. That works great when you are a kid, but when you grow up and face the real world, you will find you must fight to just break even.