Fatty, thank you kindly for the information. I'm glad you stuck in there!
Originally Posted by
KC10 FATboy
You need to get a second opinion. Call another recruiter. Go see your local ROTC unit and ask them about any help they might be able to provide. The guard and reserves are an excellent way to serve in the military.
Is the ANG different from the Air Force Reserves?
Finally, take a look at yourself. What can you do to improve your resume? Clearly, having a PPL is going to be a plus. Whoever told you that it wasn't is an idiot. Do you have a technical degree or did you study language? How well did you score on the AFOQT? Can you take that again and score higher? What is your physical fitness like? How about your medical condition?
My degree is a B.S. in Geological Sciences. Most of the languages are self-taught, but plenty in college too. My scores averaged about 85 in the AFOQT — I don't recall offhand the exact scores anymore (it was almost two years ago now); I could definitely retake it, but that would be the last time. I am in very good shape physically, and already capable of all the basic PT standards. Medical condition is just fine.
There are probably several reasons why you weren't selected. A pilot slot is highly competitive. However, you need to seek out why and ask if there is a way around it. Otherwise, you're not going to be a pilot.
Rightly spoken. I've been asking my recruiter and his boss for about a month now and they're getting the runaround from OTS, apparently. You're right about persistence.
Originally Posted by
KBAR
First off: recruiters need to get recruits, so of course they want you to enlist! Tell them no way. You want a pilot slot, put pilot, pilot, pilot. Getting into OTS was hard enough for me, but when I was there, I found it was harder as an enlisted guy according to the prior-enlisted dudes in my flight.
You're right about that, KBAR, "pilot, pilot, pilot," just like my uncle said (the ret. AF pilot). That's what he said. "Take it or leave it." And they took it.
The requirement for reapplying is 180 days in between. Not "never". At least in 2004 it was for me. Same for the AFOQT. You might want to retake that if you need higher scores?
I know the AFOQT is only two times. But they _never_ told me that it was only two application attempts to OTS, and I never signed a piece of paper to that effect. I did for the AFOQT. Thanks for the info!
Absolutely look into the reserves and guard. They'll hire off the street. I had recruiters tell me I HAD to enlist and I believed them, only to learn at UPT that I was with guys that got hired with no flight time and no prior E time. Oh well.
Were you enlisted first then?
Have fun with your flight training. It'll help your new AF package. You'll need new LORs and an interview (and maybe whatever else I don't remember). Also comb through you old package, b/c things might be wrong. My GPA was wrongly calculated as well as a few other errors were in there that once corrected, I went back with a much stronger package.
Thank you for the advice; I've already contacted my recruiter asking for a copy of the old package, and to meet someone in the squadron capable of helping me improve it.
As for the ANG, how does that process work? Is it a full-time job (I want full-time active duty pilot as a career)? I live in PA and I want to fly jets, preferably fighters, but there aren't any in PA ANG — can I apply to out of state and have good chances?
Originally Posted by
Tweetdrvr
If you are bent on Active Duty, did you think about going two year ROTC and picking up another degree or doing a masters program. Sometimes, the two year ROTC program is an easier route than trying to get in through OTS.
Tweet, thanks for the response. I think that's a really great idea. How do you find ROTC to be an easier route? I am very interested in getting a masters in Geology, and I want to pick up some kind of engineering too, like aeronautical engineering. I really don't know where to begin looking for these things — any recommendations?
Also, I suppose as a grad student they'll at least pay me
something to live on, right? and also for teaching? I'm used to a full-time job right now, and I have a few bills to pay so I will need some income.
But, I suppose in AFROTC they'll pay for my masters degree, right? Whatever info people have on this, I'd love to hear it.
Also: how do I guarantee a flight slot through ROTC?
Originally Posted by
SaltyDog
Luke,
If you want to be an active component USAF pilot. Do not enlist!!!!!!!!!!
10-4 on that one, Salty! Only one person so far has told me to do this, and that was the recruiter!
IMO, USAF has the appearance of the more stable family life, etc. With the Global War on Terror (GWOT), all pilots are in the wringer. You will be gone alot deployed. It may be a ship or some place on land, but deployed nonetheless.
Family can't live on AF Bases when deployed?
With respect to active or guard/reserve, talk to your F-16 uncle, he will have some strong opinions, also, he may have some current serving buds you can talk about current events. If nearby, talk to some Guard/Reserve pilots and get their inputs on the ground where they serve.
I don't know where to begin to find any — any suggestions?
Happy to PM assistance if you need after you get requisite posts.
Many thanks, sir, I make take you up on that.
Lastly, will pull out one of my favorite quotes from Calvin Coolidge:
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. "
Awesome quote. Thank you for the reminder! it's amazing how a bad word like "non selected" can throw you off your game and get you considering enlisting as an E-3! heh.
Originally Posted by
blastoff
I have never personally known of anybody getting an off-the-street OTS Pilot Slot without a PPL (I'm sure there are a few)...but OTS also used to be a much larger pipeline until it was cut in half in 2005. 10 years ago you wanted to have a Commercial to be competitive. Prior Enlisted kids do get slots without PPL, but there was no reason to put-off your PPL before applying out of college.
I agree! I feel kind of cheated — but that's the past. Now I'm focused on what I need to get flying. Your words and those of everyone else posting here have already been extraordinarily helpful.
Really, I am blown away that in this day of ultra-limited OTS slots that some one would tell you you were super competitive without a PPL.
Amazing, isn't it. She must just be ignorant of the necessities.
However, like everybody is saying keep fighting. It took an extra 2 years and fighting with the Flight Surgeon world to get my medical, so I also had a long road to UPT and it was worth it.
Good for you! I'm reminded of my favorite Winston Churchill quote:
"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy."
Source:
Winston Churchill's Never Give In Speech - Succeed by Studying Great Speeches: School for Champions