Originally Posted by
Fly4hire
UAL has an entirely different set of issues, but they are not the cause of erosion in the industry. I cannot same the same for the LCC's (and SJS)
You fail to make the differentiation between the company and the people who are employed there. I''m not bashing the VA guys, I'm bashing VA, and will dance a jig on their corporate grave after ****ing on it. Ditto JBlu, AT and other LCC's. I do feel for the employees who go to work for such outfits, but I think most are pragmatic about the duration of such employment. By your rational, I should feel sympathy for those crossing picket lines, because they have families to feed and mortgages as well.
Speaking of giving a rip, I'm sure all those RJ and LCC pilots weren't feeling anything but joy as they were getting hired to fly the lift being given away by the legacies. Now the tide is starting to flow the other direction, and we are selfish and the cause of the industries ills?
Fraternity in this biz means stealing out of your brothers back pocket to feed yourself, and if he stops you, you yell "he's beating me up".
Fly4Hire,
You make some valid points, but to say the UAL contract didn't have any impact on the industry is wrong.
The BK contract followed the same road as other contracts.....senior guys take care of themselves first and junior guys get to hope the get there some day.
In BK senior folks on the MEC had one goal, save the pension! However, tunnel vision prevented them from seeing the obvios fact that the pensions would be terminated before exit. The concessions made in round one were well beyond the "fair and equitable" requirements in the code. Pilots gave up almost 45% of all labor concessions in round one not counting the to be terminated pension! I voted no because I didn't want to take that hit to save the already dead pension.
Enter round 2, company conveniently ask for more concessions but this time the amounts from each labor group are in line with the % of cost each group contributes to total labor costs. I voted No again because I had " already gave at the office." The end result using UAL's numbers and not counting pensions netted the pilots a 38% share of labor concessions while only accounting for 24% of labor costs!!! You throw in the other QOL issues and the numbers go higher.
Bottom line, the " live to fight another day" and take care of the senior guys mentality, failed.
I was there for all of it and had enough. I'm on a voluntary furlough now and wasn't in the gun sight for furlough, FYI.
IMO, ALPA needs to have a paradigm shift both in how it looks at pay and how it interacts with the company.
Generally speaking, anyone hired by a major has "paid their dues" to get there. Therfore, to gain leverage you look at pay from a CAREER stand point rather than a "pay your dues and hang in there until you get to the left seat on a widebody" mentality. this ain't the 1960's!
Realizing there is only so much money to go around, you plus up 1st year pay and take a hit running up the chart. You however earn more during a career and have "portability" to be able to leave to another carrier with taking much less of a pay hit. Good luck selling that one I know.
Next, every issue cannot be something to burn the house down issue. Things have eroded so far at UAL that there is no functional relationship between ALPA and management. Death of the company is sure to follow if it goes on long enough!
Have fun.
Lee