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Old 08-22-2006, 08:12 PM   #17  
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
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Originally Posted by FlyerJosh View Post
Oh- as one other side note... I'd be careful about some of the advice that you get from these days...

A lot of the knowledgable folks have moved on to other forums, and there are a lot of "experts" over there that really aren't anything other than posers. Not to say that there may not be some things worth reading, but I for one don't bother to dig through all of the chaff to find what is worth my time.


But to elaborate on "holding out" and "for hire"...

If you can find a friend or acquaintance who is willing to let you fly along and manipulate the controls for your own fun or benefit, that is not a commercial operation, and you can log it all if you are rated & current for the airplane and operation. In this case the flight time is not compensation because you are not being compensated for anything! It's just two guys going flying...

Where this could go the wrong way is if the owner of the plane obviously has a NEED for your piloting you are Inst. rated, he's not, and the weather is IMC. Even this is OK if the guy is your uncle or a friend as opposed to somebody you solicited or just met today. What if the owner is a 777 CA for a major airline? The FAA would have a field day trying to prove that HE "hired" YOU to fly HIS airplane with him in it... lol

Also if you return to the point of origin with no other stops, that makes it REALLY hard for anyone to say that you did common carriage, which requires point A to point B transport (by definition). Realistically, unless you are holding out in a really visible way you can do recreational flying with almost anybody you want, and log it if you meet the requirements.

Holding Out is like's not defined by the sex, it's defined by the relationship between the parties:

Girl A: You just met her tonight on the street corner, arrange a date, you make some small talk, take her to a motel, have sex, pay her $200, and leave.

Girl B: You met her on tuesday at work, arrange a date, take her to dinner and for drinks ($200), make small talk, go back to her place, have sex, and leave.

You might actually end up married to girl B...

Last edited by rickair7777; 08-22-2006 at 08:30 PM.
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