Originally Posted by
aileronjam
That's not what I said, but it's true, if someone was hired directly into the left seat at VA today, they'd make more than someone in the right seat at UA. They'd also make more if they were hired into the right seat at VA since their first year pay is more than UA. Their opportunity for advancement, (upgrade), at VA is greater and therefore would be another reason their income would be greater. Assuming you could upgrade in the same aircraft at UA in 6 years, (not likely), your pay would only be $8 more per hour than VA at the same time of service and you'd have spent 3 or 4 years more in the right seat with worse schedules.
This is all completely moot since it's not possible to get hired at United right now.
You're brilliant... (yes, that's sarcasm). And why do you think they don't need to take 30% pay cuts?
The pilot groups that caught up are: Delta, United, American, NWA, SWA, etc... Yes, they were all start-up airlines at one time and paid their pilots terribly. But over time, new pay scales and work rules were negotiated. It only took them a few decades to get them but you expect VA or whoever to accomplish this instantly or they're considered beneath you.
If AT, JB, Frnt, AW are so subpar, why aren't there numerous threads bashing them? Why single out VA? VA hasn't even had a chance to make a go of it yet and you've already decided that they'll never negotiate a better pay scale. You seem to feel that you and you're airline are entitled to everything and no-one else can compete for the business. It's ok to not like competition but be an adult about it.
I don't know, when do you think an airline should pay industry leading pay... day one? You aren't a business major are you?
You apparently don't understand the seniority system.
First off if you have to write that it's sarcasm, it's not that good. Your asking why I don't think VA needs to take a 30% pay cut? If pay cuts are needed at that low of a rate then the company is already failing and those cuts won't save it.
I like how you are comparing VA to delta, nwa, united, american and southwest. I'll give you southwest but the others were start ups when there weren't any other airlines. They were the originals. It only took southwest 30 years to catch up and that is only because the others fell. They never caught up or really fought to catch up in the first 30 years. I'm waiting to see how they do on their TA.
Threads on other airlines have all been out there. Jetblue had a bunch on here.
You want to give Virgin pilots the benefit of the doubt that's fine. I'm just waiting to see a pilot group actually fight to catch up and do it. I've heard pilots say "don't pick on me, we've only been around for 30 years and it's only our second contract." My response is what have you been waiting for this whole time. An airtran pilot's comment once was "it's tough to get a pay raise now that the rest have fallen to just above us."
As for not liking competition, when did I ever say that. I would love competition. I love that frontier, jetblue, virgin and airtran have entertainment on their airplanes. It makes the others have to compete. If you are talking about competing against other pilot groups who are undercutting the rest of the industry pilots then I'm completely against that. Let management do the competing.
You are right I'm not a business major and if you are I hope you are asking for a refund. Yes I believe they could be paying industry standard from day one. If they are a startup then their pilots will be paid 1st, 2nd and 3rd year CA and FO rates vs. the higher year rates of established carriers. There's already an advantage built in.
I do like that you won't even give an opinion as to when a start up should pay industry standard. That's the same answer everyone gives.