Originally Posted by
RJSAviator76
Ah, copperhead, I see you are furloughed EMB-145 FO, from TSA I presume?
I can see your arguments are self-serving. Allow me to illustrate:
1) Pilots that go to <insert your favorite regional> know the story <they're replacing a mainline pilot by working for poverty level wages>.
2) Pilots who go to <insert your favorite regional> are helping justify management's decision to create an alter-ego airline. <Is there anything "regional" about IAH - MSP?> If <insert your favorite regional here> couldn't get any pilots, management would have to come up with another solution to staff the "feeder" flying. That solution would hopefully include bringing back MAINLINE pilots from furlough.
3) Every REGIONAL pilot is the blame no matter what their hire date is.
Tell me... how is GoJet (no S at the end) screwing over your pilot group? By their sheer existence? Tell me... how is this any different from any other regional airline in the grand scheme of things?
Now, I was fully on your side in 2005, but after the decision was handed down, you either have to fight it, or accept it. You chose to accept it by refusing to appeal. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Face it, you gambled and you lost.
I don't mean to sound crass, but those are the facts. Anything I see coming from you guys is pure emotional rhetoric with literally no substance. I'm yet to see what are you trying to do to fix your situation in light of the decision. All I see is aimless whining and futile intimidation attempts at anyone asking for information on GoJet.
Yes, I am furloughed TSA.
1) This is only partially correct, and a self serving to your side of the argument. Mainline guys in many cases did not want the 50 seat flying and willingly let it go and now everybody in the industry regrets it. Had the pilots cared enough about what was happening, scope would have been amended to prevent it from happening anymore after the first airline did it.
2) I'm all for that but again, the major guys weren't fighting to prevent the regionals from being created only to have management screw them by loopholes in a weak scope clause. That makes the difference in the situations enormous.
3) Pretty sure this is the same argument the 3rd time. The only way to fix that is for every regional pilot to quit at the same time and for nobody else to take a regional job. I'd be willing to do it if everybody else would too. The problem is that the regionals are one of a fairly small number of ways to get to the majors and to change that, we'd all have to quit on the same day or week or whatever.
Ok, I will tell you how GoJetS is screwing over TSA. TSA was supposed to get 70 seat aircraft but the pilot group elected to try to better the industry and would not take whatever Hulas would give them. As a result, Hulas said screw you, I'm gonna weasel my way through the scope clause in the contract and make an alter-ego airline (you can't possibly disagree that it is an alter-ego airline). That alter-ego airline then went ahead and hired pilots at a lesser rate than the TSA pilots were willing to take. If no pilots were willing to go to said alter-ego, then management would have no choice but to give in to the TSA pilots. Because desperate pilots elected to go to GoJetS and continue to go there, they are continuing to show Hulas that he can whipsaw the crap out of us. If pilots were unwilling to go there, TSA might actually end up with the 70-seat flying on a merged seniority list by hire date or some other acceptable method. As it stands right now, TSA pilots are still on the street and GoJetS is hiring. The key point here though, is that GoJetS was created for the specific purpose of circumventing a pilot group that was trying to do the right thing.
As for you saying that I have refused to appeal, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I never refused to do anything. I think there should have been an appeal a long time ago. Just because the legal system did not work in the TSA pilots' favor does not make it suddenly ok for people to continue to undermine the pilot group.
If anybody's arguments are self-serving, I'm fairly sure it's yours.
Originally Posted by
Blkflyer
I am not Buying that because if that was the Case RAH pilots are knowingly Screwing Midwest pilots RIGHT NOW.. No disrespect to RAH pilots just using your situation as an example of how all of this is really out of our hands.. I dont know of any RAH pilot who was happy with the decision of management of RAH holdings and Midwest but they have to live with it. the point is GoJet Pilots are in no way any different.
This post is almost too clueless to respond to but I'll try to make it short and simple. RAH was not created as an alter-ego airline. RAH pilots did not knowingly apply to an alter-ego airline. There is a huge difference in a management group that is to blame and a pilot group that is to blame. You can be upset with RAH management all you want. The pilots didn't have anything to do with these decisions. At GoJetS, the pilots are just as much to blame as management.
Originally Posted by
RJSAviator76
We are in agreement more than you think.
You are absolutely correct. You learn from the mistakes and you address them so they don't repeat again: at Aloha, we added a paragraph to our scope clause that addressed what happened with TSA/GoJet, and then some. What's your MEC doing to address this?
Where we disagree is how you deal with people at GoJet. Persecuting pilots at GoJet is not addressing the past and applying lessons learned. The intent of people that went to GoJet in 2005 pre-ruling is quite a bit different than those that went there in 2008 or 2009 - 3 years after the ruling. That's my whole point...
The TSA contract has been amendable for somewhere around 3 years I believe. We've been in arbitration for somewhere around 2 years. It's not lack of effort among the pilot group that has caused us not to have a new contract yet and I guarantee scope will be a pretty huge issue on this contract. The union has opened up a strike center and hopefully with the new administration, we will be allowed to strike sometime soon. I'm currently in training at my new airline so I am most likely done Waterskiing but I support everybody there completely. They are a great group of pilots.