I stand corrected on this. In this respect it is unlike the ATR series.

O.K.......a few more general thoughts (this IS important).

One concern is that this airplane MAY have been operating outside its icing certification envelope (something the crew may not have been fully aware of). Eagle 4184 was operating outside its envelope with the type of icing it was in (unbeknowst the the experienced crew) for ONLY about 5 minutes !

The end result of the ATR accident (hinge-moment reversal) doesn't seem likely here, but perhaps a general stall and mushing descent with what appears to be a 180 degree course reversal in the process. One similarity that strikes me however, is the sophisticated autopliots in these airplanes that can mask control or performance degradation until the aircraft departs controlled flight. The deaccelration and configuration changes (especially with the autopilot locked on and attempting to maintain altitude) can change the airflow equation over the wing (and/or tail) quite quickly and dramatically.

In the ATR (and Embraer RJ) at Eagle any ice observed on the side windows is to be taken as a clue the airplane is operating in conditions outside normal certification and the autopilots should be disengaged and the conditions exited ASAP. Buffalo is a known ice factory. The surface winds were out of the southwest but at middle altitudes above 3000 feet, the wind was likely out of the west bringing in moisture from Lake Erie. It appears most aircraft were complaining of ice above 3000 but seeing it slide off at lower altitude with less moisture and slightly warmer temps. I wonder if this was just run of the mill ice or was it frezzing drizzle (super cooled water droplets) that can run back behind the wing and tail ice protection to cause problems.

My understanding is that the captain was previously a Saab driver from Houston with only a couple of months in the airplane and serious winter ops and the F/O was in her first year (and first winter) with the airline. The 4184 crew had thousands of hours in type and winter ops, but still was snake-bitten so it seems this MAY have some bearing.

I don't see blame, only more victims that were part of the typical (and complex) equation that results in such tragedies. I've tried to learn all I can about Roselawn and I hope to understand as much about Buffalo. Right now, a young man has apparently arrived in Buffalo in the hope of accompanying the remains of his recently wed wife home (she was living her dream as an airline pilot). A wife has a husband who was an airline captain not returning from his last trip and children who must be loved more now for she will have to do it for him. Magnify this X 48 X all those who knew and loved them (in the 1000's) and we can see how important this responsibility of ours (to learn) is.

We cannot heal their pain, but we can learn and do our best to prevent it again and that IS our responsibility. Sometimes that involves painful exploration and understanding for that is the only way we can hope to reach that goal.