Todd, what you propose is not civility, but fealty. As the arbiter of what's right and wrong you offer to stop calling people liars only when they accept your vision of reality. Notice the rest of us may disagree and question how each other might have come upon information, but we don't call each other liars for not accepting the others view of the world. Only you do that as you have with others elsewhere. Todd, one must therefore assume that at some point; if we who have facts that don't coincide with your reality, that you will threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue if we don't capitulate to your world vision.

OK.

The hooker? Ask Brian ******ti, the MEC Chairman who paid her way with ALPA funds and then told the MEC Chairman at his new employer how to do it and hide the funds, and get a cut of the action if they wanted to do it for last years BOD. What, he couldn't find one in Vegas?

As for Paul? Great guy, known him for many years. Prater cut his knees off with IFALPA by putting Sluys in there to oversight him. But his own people have not supported him in the past and likely won't next round. Dave is a nice guy too, but disliked by his rank and file and as much as I like him personally, too much of a fence sitter.

Beyond that, ALPA legacies will never elect a cargo pilot to head the union. Hell, we wouldn't elect the FDX candidate for VP-Finance who had light years more qualifications than Helling.

As to my discussion with others about Moak and DAL standing alone which got hijacked, the fact is that there is nothing for DAL to gain by staying other than the perception of unity. If DAL went out tomorrow and you guys at AirTran were in ALPA, would you honor their picket line and refuse to cross it to fly your planes? Nope. Neither would anyone else. You'd do a "resolution of unity with your DAL brothers in their time of conflict" and go about your lives. So would everyone else. And when you got hit with a strike assessment and an assessment to refloat the MCF, everyone would ***** about it. Because they always do and DAL would be an easy target because they are the biggest dog in the kennel.

Conversely, if you go out on strike because your fifth negotiating committee can't get a deal, will DAL honor your picket line and refuse to cross it like true trade unionists...or will they go scoop your traffic and put you out of business? That's not a knock at them, just an economic reality. Until there is true trade unionism, you are viewed as a lower cost carrier that management will use as a reason to demand lower wages in the market. And since there is no leadership at ALPA willing to stand up and draw that line in the sand, you're toast.