Originally Posted by
ToiletDuck
Just jumpseated with them a few months ago where a newhire was an old CHQ guy off IOE from the 74.
We haven't completed our contract either.
I'd like to see your comparisons. "Seriously". Frank L and JO might have a little more in common.
That's a great number. Where'd you get it from? Can you explain to me why that number makes sense? Is it possible you're just stabbing at random figures? What calculations did you do to come up with this solid and sound figure? You should consider work rules into your equation too. But anyway wouldn't this mean your time would be spent more wisely lecturing/complaining to the JetBlue and US Air guys who actually have the aircraft and are flying them for wages you don't think seem fit vs. companies who don't even have them?
<--I'm dead serious if you can give me an answer to that my brain will be warped into some form of enlightenment never experienced by the likes of mankind. You have to admit it makes it seem more like you just hate a particular company, who shall remain nameless, rather then looking for the most effective form of internet picketing.
I'm sure the union will give them a figure based on what others are flying them for like everyone else does. Either they spring for it or they don't.
Well if you've read any of my previous posts regarding our situation you'd see I, nor anyone else, plan on flying any new additional aircraft for a number that doesn't seem fair. What determines fair will be based on many things from industry averages, company growth/finances, future outlook, work rules, and so fort. A simple "We want JBLU +$10" will get laughed at without something substantial to back it. If the time ever came I'd sit down, plug out the numbers, and decide where I'd draw the line. If not met they can keep them. I won't vote for a new larger type of aircraft on property at the expense of mainline pay or jobs. That simple. I'm content with being an FO until that is met.
Now my turn.
You keep pegging guys that work here with "Would you put up a fight or just take what he gives you". Do you not think that sounds a little hypocritical from someone who took a paycut from his management? Regardless of reason why it was still taken. Yes an FO might still make as much or more there than RAH but doesn't the point still stand? How much did that do for "the future of the profession, for your career, and for what's right"? What this points to is that everyone has a point where they'll take what's given when
they consider it justified. You're on your side of the fence and we're on ours. Your guys were faced with a decision and felt it was justified to vote yes on the concessions. Those justifications are on your own personal levels. Your opinions are widely noted but might not always be shared by all those on our end. To each his own and you need to learn to accept that. Regardless of why you found it justified to take a pay cut you make less now than you did a year ago which is not what's "best for the profession". I'm not dogging it you did what you thought you had to do but I don't think it's proper for us to be lectured then about doing what's "best for the profession". As I said I'm proud of my pilot group for achieving the things they have and have faith they'll do the right thing in the future. It's a series to steps not a single leap.
First off, as usual you assume you know everything, and while I know who you are, you don't know me as well. Thus, you don't know that I voted no on our concessionary contract, so please stop acting like you know what I did, or didn't do. Our concessions have nothing to do with this, our company was simply not profitable at the time, and some of our pilot group believed the survival of the company rested on concessions, many of us, but not enough disagreed.
Now we are talking about RAH here last I checked. To that end, you didn't answer the most simple of questions:
If the pay offered by management is substandard will you fly the equipment?
It's a yes or no question. There is no middle ground on it. It's the same as if I asked you if you would cross a picket line? It's a yes or no question.
Jetblue + 10% is their rates adjusted for inflation (rounded off to the nearest percentage point), surely a "financial" wiz of your statue would know that.
By the way, your buddy at fedex must be on the panel, and since they haven't hired anyone in almost a year, even if he was on the right seat, that still means he didn't fly it year 1.
And since unlike the rest of your group, you seem to defend your CEO's every action, it should be noted, that because of his actions, the furloughed pilots and crew members at Midwest are not coming back.....geez, I wonder where in history I've seen this? Maybe around the mid to late 80's, and the same exact circumstances...what was that guy's name? Oh yeah...Frank Lorenzo!!! Turns out he's got quite the following, J.O., Hulas, Bedford.....guy's a hero around your parts.
Originally Posted by
ToiletDuck
No. There's other growth opportunities out there. US Air(if any flying is needed if Mesa goes BK), F9, Mok, Alaska, and CAL(if any flying is needed if XJT goes BK). I don't expect Midwest to last but it only has to go till June to have been a complete profit for the company.
We're locked in with CAL for the next 6 and half years, so it's highly unlikely we would see the inside of a court room, besides, you clearly don't understand the terms of our CPA, if you did, you would know that it's equally beneficial to CAL that we stay a float.
It's interesting, cause you guys will only have 15 frames on property with CAL by the end of the year and not even 20 departures out of IAH by the end of summer, and you really think you still have an in with CAL, oh yeah, that's right, you talked to Larry a while back, and he told you how much he loves CHQ, right after they accelerated the retirement of the CRJ's and some of the 145's (which are being leased to Aeromexico). So we get to pick up the slack, by keeping 10 extra frames above CPA in service to cover the CRJ's and some of the 145's. The only way, you guys could see growth at CAL, is if scope goes away, and you know perfectly well where the CAL pilots stand on that, if you don't, next time you're hanging around IAH, approach one of them and ask them, you may need about 2 hours, cause that's about how long their going to go into it. Management has nothing else they can take away from them, and during negotiations, they've already turned it down.
We got as much chance of going belly up, as you guys do, that should tell you something.
So again I pose the question yes or no:
Will you fly the equipment for subpar wages?
You may not see the big picture, but the rest of the industry is relying on you guys getting a good contract, and CAL getting a good contract, as it will set the bar for future negotiations.
I am glad you're no involved with the negotiations at your company, you seem to have almost an adoration for your management.
Best of luck to those involved in the negotiation process.