OK. I'll check that out tomorrow and talk to a couple of people during the next weeks. I get your point and you are probably right. I'll have to see. I have flown as a passenger on gliders a few times now and all of them were winch take-offs. They are AWESOME! I love the feeling and if you look at the instruments and you see the speed increasing extremly it's really cool. The first time I did it I was all pumped up with adrenaline when I was back on the ground! You get used to it a bit but it'd really cool! I love it.