AV8OR - Like I said, I'm not an aviation industry guru, it's just my opinion that this would be a good system. I am also speaking of an ideal situation.
Maybe we should create our own thread here… LOL
I am not an aviation guru either but believe the system you describe would be a horrendous system: not practical, confusing but most of all extremely unfair…
The system we have now, which doesn't work, would theoretically work in an ideal situation.
Au contraire - the system we have now works perfectly fine… Anyone can apply to any airline they want and hopefully if they pass the interview they will get hired… IF I don’t like what I see or think that my company doesn’t have a bright future I’m allowed to apply somewhere else… What
you want is the
best of both worlds, to keep your seniority while taking out any risks involved with going to a specific airline…
(Of course in an ideal situation management would behave ethically and we wouldn't need unions anyway, which is what this thread is about). I realize that there are many interests in a particular pilot group. This is true no matter how large/small the group. You can't really say that it wouldn't work because there are too many interests. What do we do now? We negotiate the best we can get that will keep as many people as happy as possible.
Well, don’t you think those “ many interests” details are pretty important? Like I said, when exactly can I get my NSL number? You said when I’m eligible for ALPA? Really? Well, what about those military guys/gals? Don’t they deserve a credit for their service in the military? What about cargo versus pax pilots? Some studies indicate that cargo pilots do not live as long as passenger pilots. If that’s true, shouldn’t we get a preferential treatment in obtaining that NSL number? Let’s call it the "cargo pilot affirmative action" to avoid freightdog discrimination, ok?
Oh, while we are at it, how about all those folks flying drones in Afghanistan? When will you award them their number? I mean many of them will be looking for a civilian job once they get out of the military…
Not sure of a country where this has been tried before, so I don't have an example of how it has worked (not including the USSR - a lot of things didn't work under that system). I'm glad to hear that you guys went out of your way to keep pilots on the property in the face of a furlough.
Seriously doubt you’ll find it anywhere as it’s a system doomed to fail, just like the Russkys found out the hard way about their utopian society…
But if it's only a matter of looking out for yourself, why bother? (At Comair the FA's took part time to save other FA's jobs - some pilots would have done it but couldn't). Why bother? Taking part time will hurt you moneterily (?) and therefore you should tell the junior guy "Tough luck."
Well, we were helping our own… Nothing personal but pilots working for other airlines are
not our own; in fact most of the time they’re our competitors…
I've participated in numerous money drives for pilots from other airlines when they dealt with huge medical bills, etc. but that’s different… That’s a voluntarily compassion, nothing wrong with that, in fact that’s a great thing to do.
However, to voluntarily give up hundreds of thousands of dollars in potential pay and benefits simply because you feel sorry for someone who lost his/her job is not a sign of compassion but of a self destructive behavior in my view…
For that matter, with this reasoning, nobody on this forum should have anything to say to GJ pilots - they're just getting ahead. What about crossing a picket line? You're just doing what's best for you and your interests, who cares about the guys walking? Why not jump over senior guys at your own airline? It's just what's best for you....
You lost me here; I read it a few times and still don’t know what you mean in this paragraph… You just described the worst of the worst behavior in aviation - not sure what's that got to do with a NS list?
This would be the same seniority system we already employ, just on a great, big scale. There is no ideal situation, but in light of the system that we've had, which does not seem to be working, this seems to be worth a shot.
youlostplane – please remember, I cannot share a seniority number with my competitor, that’s just insane…
I hope everyone will do wel but ultimately I want for my company to be the best and the most successful entity out there… How would that work if all of a sudden we got hundreds of new employees who just a few months earlier were working for our biggest competitor? Don’t you think they’d bring a very bad morale with them?
For example if all of a sudden the NSL brought hundreds of former Fedex pilots to UPS very soon they’d be demanding those ugly black leather jackets instead of our beautiful brown jackets… We can’t have that!
(keedin’ purple drivers - I wish our jackets were black too)…
I’m desperately trying to see your point and to understand how this might work but the more I think about it the more insane it sounds…
One list for all pilots in the US? What the heck, are we a communist nation already or where is this mentality coming from? IF we create one list for all the pilots in the US, why not make it a global list? I mean seriously, don’t you feel sorry for the Al Italia, Air Zaire and Mozambique Airways pilots who lost their jobs? Why limit ourselves to the US only?
I take it you don’t feel much kinship with those pilots, correct? Well, why should that be any different here in the US - we ARE talking about competing airlines, right?
Management has learned how to get around the rules, so we need to update the rules. The RLA is a good example of an outdated principle or system. There has to be an absolute somewhere. You can't say "I'll support my pilot group but I don't care about United/Delta/American/Whoever guys." Next time it might be you.
The government's certainly not going to improve anything, nor do I think they should.
Really, then isn’t what you’re asking for in effect a semi-government solution? I don’t care who runs it, the effect will be the same – one list only… Should we start calling it the Mao’s Little Red List?
It is the responsibility of the pilots to improve things if they want them improved. (My vote's still out on Regulation. Used to think it was a good idea, now I'm thinking that if it were truly a free market, when an airline went BK it'd be gone, good riddance, let someone do it right next time. But then what happens to the pilots? Aaaahh. We have an NSL!) That's all. I'd still be furloughed either way, NSL or not, so this is kinda academic, but... Your turn.
I will be honest with you when I say this scares me… America is a nation of entrepreneurs, innovators and competitors… Now some people think that we don’t need to make independent decisions anymore, that we need to stop competing and instead we should all belong to this one union, work for this one huge company because that’ll take out all the risks of making a wrong choice…
Please don't take it the wrong way but it seems like our whole nation is becoming more and more socialistic in the way we do things... Makes me think of that article I read not too long ago where bright kids in high school who were doing very well in school were told to stop asking questions in class because it wasn't fair to the ‘slower’ student who couldn't catch up… Where are we heading as a nation when we choose the lowest common denominator? Again, I want to re-emphasize that the lowest common denominator in my view is the political correctness mentality which seems to control our society nowadays... It always has to be fair and equal yet often it does the exact opposite - the affirmative action or reverse discrimination being prime example... I fear that a NSL would create a new version of affirmative action; the ideas might be noble but the implementation would prove disastrous and unfair...
By the way, I want to make it clear that I’ve been against the idea of a NSL for a very long time, I felt this way when I flew a small turboprop for a regional airline and I feel the same way now that I fly a 75/76 for a cargo company… If my company fails tomorrow my opinion will not change… NSL is a socialist idea which in my book means it’s a bad idea…
Your turn Comrade...
PS. I found your airplane... LOL
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...picture063.jpg