Well, don’t you think those “many interests” details are pretty important? Like I said, when exactly can I get my NSL number? You said when I’m eligible for ALPA? Really? Well, what about those military guys/gals? Don’t they deserve a credit for their service in the military? What about cargo versus pax pilots? Some studies indicate that cargo pilots do not live as long as passenger pilots. If that’s true, shouldn’t we get a preferential treatment in obtaining that NSL number? Let’s call it the "cargo pilot affirmative action" to avoid freightdog discrimination, ok?

Sure the many interests are important, but we still have our present system of voting on what most people think is most important. In a presidential election we do the same thing. Most electoral votes = new pres. I don't go around saying "He's not my president" because I voted for the other guy... Is the military in the union now? How would you unionize against the US government anyway? Not that they're lesser pilots, but if I got out of the military today and walked into civilian aviation, I'd start at the bottom, just like a guy fresh out of ERU. I respect all cargo pilots immensely. I know that there are cargo outfits out there that could stand some representation. Why put a barrier between the pilot that fly boxes or pax, though?

Oh, while we are at it, how about all those folks flying drones in Afghanistan? When will you award them their number? I mean many of them will be looking for a civilian job once they get out of the military…

Honestly not sure - are these guys certificated pilots or just trained by the military? I would be interested to find out.


For that matter, with this reasoning, nobody on this forum should have anything to say to GJ pilots - they're just getting ahead. What about crossing a picket line? You're just doing what's best for you and your interests, who cares about the guys walking? Why not jump over senior guys at your own airline? It's just what's best for you....

You lost me here; I read it a few times and still don’t know what you mean in this paragraph… You just described the worst of the worst behavior in aviation - not sure what's that got to do with a NS list?

To clarify - The point I was trying to make is that if you use the "looking out for my own" rationale, that's what the pilots that engage in these activities are doing. GJ pilots are looking out for GJ guys - why should they care how much TSA guys cry? Same for scabs. If I've been stepped on by a particular facet of the contract that senior guys voted on, why should I care if they go out on strike? I'll just fly and get the good schedules while they're picketing. (I would NEVER do this by the way, I'm just trying to make a point.)

Well, we were helping our own… Nothing personal but pilots working for other airlines are not our own; in fact most of the time they’re our competitors…


However, to voluntarily give up hundreds of thousands of dollars in potential pay and benefits simply because you feel sorry for someone who lost his/her job is not a sign of compassion but of a self destructive behavior in my view…

youlostplane – please remember, I cannot share a seniority number with my competitor, that’s just insane…

I hope everyone will do wel but ultimately I want for my company to be the best and the most successful entity out there… How would that work if all of a sudden we got hundreds of new employees who just a few months earlier were working for our biggest competitor? Don’t you think they’d bring a very bad morale with them?

Again - see above argument about scabs, etc. I don't see CAL/AA/Eagle pilots as me "competition," they are fellow pilots. Under an NSL they would be "my own."

One list for all pilots in the US? What the heck, are we a communist nation already or where is this mentality coming from? IF we create one list for all the pilots in the US, why not make it a global list? I mean seriously, don’t you feel sorry for the Al Italia, Air Zaire and Mozambique Airways pilots who lost their jobs? Why limit ourselves to the US only?

I DO see your point here and agree... On the other hand, use British Airways as an example - what BA pilot in their right mind would want anything to do with the work rules and pay we have in the US? Also, according to a friend from the UK, (you know, the old a friend of a friend of a guy that used to know someone's uncle....), seniority over there is transferrable and it seems to work out ok.

I take it you don’t feel much kinship with those pilots, correct? Well, why should that be any different here in the US - we ARE talking about competing airlines, right?

The competing airlines argument is the most convincing I've heard so far, but are we really competing aginst other pilots? I mean, come on - we all need to know what we're doing, fly safely and get the pax/boxes there in one piece. We can do that for anybody, and if the qol and pay was the same across the board, would it really matter who? I mean unless someone was in love with the idea of flying for CAL or Delta, what's the difference? If a 76 driver gets paid the same with the same qol no matter where he flies, whats the difference?

I will be honest with you when I say this scares me… America is a nation of entrepreneurs, innovators and competitors… Now some people think that we don’t need to make independent decisions anymore, that we need to stop competing and instead we should all belong to this one union, work for this one huge company because that’ll take out all the risks of making a wrong choice…

If UPS folds when you're 50 you'll be scared then, too. Especially with NO prospect of going anywhere else for comparable pay and bennies. Hope the house and boat are paid for. Don't say it couldn't happen, It has happened to a few "unsinkable" airlines. We certainly do need to make our own decisions. You decide to get car or life insurance because anything could happen. This is the same thing. I don't think the government needs to do ANYTHING for an NSL to come about, why would they need to get involved? (Not that they wouldn't get involved, but they wouldn't NEED to.)

Maybe we do need our own thread... Anyway, I was gonna see what a few more experienced guys thought about this, but no one's around tonight. Yay - night shift! I enjoy the debate. Happy flying. Thanks for finding my plane. I definitely miss not living near the shore anymore. CVG's land locked.