Originally Posted by
⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
"hemaybedid" - I believe "wheremyplane" is furloughed from a major airline but I see your point... I guess I never thought of it that way but it sort of makes sense...
Av8or is kind of myopic in a way that he is incapable of seeing the big picture when it comes to piloting profession. In other words, it's all about him and his seniority that's strictly based on his date of hire.
You can call it myopic I call it logical… I do not want you to pay my mortgage neither do I want your seniority number…
Are you saying that your job is not all about you? If not than I assume you’re donating some 40% or more of your pay and benefits to the “furloughed fund” correct? Because that’s what a NSL would do – people getting in front of you simply because they had bad luck at their previous company… Is it tragic for them, absolutely it is… However, that does not mean their misfortune should turn other peoples’ lives upside down…
Why do you think this would turn other people's lives upside down? You seriously think it's logical for a pilot who's "paid his/her dues" to have to start over making "apprentice pay" again? Wow... with logic like that, management has an extremely easy task of dividing any pilot group - simply threaten your seniority with 'paycuts or mass furloughs.'
What the man is incapable of seeing is that NSL idea or something along those lines gives pilots the ability to say NO to getting shafted by the carpetbagger management - the pilots are able to port their pay/"seniority" some place else that might pick up the pieces. In other words, we wouldn't be racing to the bottom because we're all divided.
Please spare me your lecture - what you see to be incapable of understanding is that communism as an ideology has failed... We will ALWAYS be divided as long as there is competition in this country… I feel a kinship with other pilots BUT I am not willing to give up my benefits for their sake… Neither do I expect that from them... If there's a donation drive due to someone's illness or other tragedy - you bet you I will help out... If our (the key word is OUR) junior pilots are threatened with a furlough you bet you I'll volunteer my money and my time to prevent that from happening... However, to arbitrarily give away my seniority (i.e. money and retirement benefits) to pilots from competing airlines would, in my view, be totally insane…
Again... myopic at best. Communism is what you have right now. Can you have some sh*t-hot pilot come through who can fly circles around you, is better qualified than you, is all over the customer service aspect of the job, treats his crews phenomenally... can this pilot advance before you? See... in communism, he cannot. In free market, unless you kept up with him, your lazy, underperforming a$$ would be on the street or not promoted. Here's the question for you - why shouldn't that pilot be promoted ahead of you and/or paid better than you? Now, when you answer that... address every party, including the company and the customer.
Look at all these people voting "YES" to crappy contracts... and why do they do that? Let's see... what's their alternative? 1st year pay some place else... or a concession. But hey... they'll be all over this board chest-thumping how everyone should vote NO!
I’m sorry but this it total nonsense… We agree to “crappy contracts” because of the 1st year pay???
I have no idea what you’re talking about…
Of course you don't. No disrespect meant, but much of free market concept, and idea of professionalism seem to be well above your level of understanding. But let's continue...
Let's say two pilots start their career on the same day – today. After earning their ratings one of them becomes a flight instructor for a year or so then starts at a regional airline for 2 years and then ends up at a premier major airline “A” where he/she gets to fly nice day trips, frequently gets to fly international trips and enjoys great pay and benefits…
The second pilot gets hired at several regional airlines before he ends up at a small low-cost cargo outfit “B” where no one wants to work… In fact people are leaving left and right but he/she decides to give it a chance and stays there for the long run…
Ten years later; the first pilot who’s been at the ‘premier’ outfit for almost 7 years is now looking for a job as the airline “A” has now folded.
The second pilot who’s now been at his cargo outfit “B” for almost 5 years is glad to see that his/her benefits and quality of life have greatly improved since the day he took a gamble on working there… In fact, his low-cost operator has turned into a premier airline and now many other pilots want to work at ‘his’ airline…
Since they both flew the same type of airplane based on the idea of a NSL the pilot from airline “A” can now apply to work at airline “B” and in fact upgrade sooner than the pilot who’s been there for 5 years and who believed in his/her airline when no one else did…
No way should we ever allow that!
So to you... it's professionally acceptable for a pilot A to make the same wage as you did 7 years ago? You can keep your benefits, bidding for schedules, vacation rate accrual, you name it... but you're OK with pilot A to be set back to making crap wage? How is that benefitting anyone except you? I got a newsflash for you... it's not even benefitting you. Quite the contrary, it's undercutting you.... because you get a guy with say, equal or similar experience working for a fraction of your pay. When I flew at my old airline, and saw UAL/USAir furloughees flying the same airplane I was for literally 30% of what I was making simply because of date-of-hire, I felt nauseated. I was senior... but I saw that as a threat to my job.
Totally myopic and totally incapable of seeing the big picture...
Totally utopian and totally unable to think logically, moreover extremely unfair – fortunately Americans are smarter than that and it'll never happen…
Utopian? Can I ask if you've ever traveled outside of the United States? Have you traveled on foreign airlines? Have you seen any employment contracts for pilots working for foreign airlines? I dread traveling on US airlines for a number of reasons... one of the biggest reasons is that the focus on customer is long gone. When I travel internationally either on vacation or to get to my plane, I avoid US airlines like the plague. Let's see... nice, smiling, pleasing-on-the-eyes flight attendants with great customer service skills, and enthusiasm for the job or cranky old b*tches who are flying international because they've been at it for 50 years and you as a customer should consider yourself lucky to get a cup of Coke?
Why is that? Look no further - UNIONS.
Back to the subject? ...so was his wife right or not?
Absolutely, unions are so 19th century. They served their purpose... now they're just dead weight.