Why do you think this would turn other people's lives upside down? You seriously think it's logical for a pilot who's "paid his/her dues" to have to start over making "apprentice pay" again? Wow... with logic like that, management has an extremely easy task of dividing any pilot group - simply threaten your seniority with 'paycuts or mass furloughs.
Yes, I do… It’s unfortunate but it can happen to all of us… If you don’t like to take any risks then work for the government; you’ll have a much more predictable career and you won’t have to worry about your company going out of business…
Also, it’s your mentality that’s management’s dream, not mine… You might say the best get the jobs when a union is not present yet I’ve seen it with my own eyes where it’s the biggest butt-kissers who get those jobs… So maybe one day someone else who would like to do your job for half the pay and who also happens to be your boss’ friend will take your job away from you… Then you’ll miss having a seniority number…
Again... myopic at best. Communism is what you have right now. Can you have some sh*t-hot pilot come through who can fly circles around you, is better qualified than you, is all over the customer service aspect of the job, treats his crews phenomenally... can this pilot advance before you? See... in communism, he cannot. In free market, unless you kept up with him, your lazy, underperforming a$$ would be on the street or not promoted. Here's the question for you - why shouldn't that pilot be promoted ahead of you and/or paid better than you? Now, when you answer that... address every party, including the company and the customer. Of course you don't.
No, communism is what YOU want; you want affirmative action for less fortunate pilots and use the ‘free market’ concept as an excuse… YOU are the one who wants to delay other pilots' advancements just because you (or someone you know) had bad luck in your previous job… It's horrible BUT that’s a “share the wealth” mentality so please stop using free market economy as an excuse…
You keep repeating that the best and the brightest get promoted first at companies without the unions – well, maybe that happens too but very often the upgrade and promotion is based on a “buddy-buddy” system and you fail to recognize that…
To follow up on your question how exactly will you measure a pilot’s performance at an airline with lets say 12,000 pilots? Are you going to take those who haven’t called in sick and upgrade them sooner than those who called in sick a time or two? Or will you speed up upgrades for those who always answer the calls from crew scheduling? Even on their days off? Or will you come up with some other arbitrary way of measuring this “performance” goal?
By the way, you never said anything about the example I brought up in my previous post? Do you honestly think a person who took a chance on an airline no one wanted to work for initially should be bypassed by someone who enjoyed higher pay and benefits at another carrier but now that his/her airline is gone wants to ‘reconsider’ the “crappy” airline after all? Of course, it’s based on the “performance,” right? Yeah, that’s right, that’s what butt kissing is called nowadays…
No disrespect meant, but much of free market concept, and idea of professionalism seem to be well above your level of understanding.
Above my level of understanding? Oh well, maybe so but fortunately we all have “know-it-alls” such as you who’re willing to educate the less fortunate masses…
You seem to believe that anyone who disagrees with your point of view is uneducated and has no clue on this subject… Well, maybe you’re right, I don’t know, but you’re not helping by repeating “no disrespect” followed by yet another personal attack…
I find it interesting that when you try to make a point I am simply not educated enough and when I disagree with your logic or lack of it, then well, I’m being myopic – how convenient for you…
But let's continue... So to you... it's professionally acceptable for a pilot A to make the same wage as you did 7 years ago? You can keep your benefits, bidding for schedules, vacation rate accrual, you name it... but you're OK with pilot A to be set back to making crap wage?
If he/she comes to a “new” airline yes, I think that’s ok… Now, many airlines, including mine have horrendously low first year pay rates and that’s something we should work on. However, no one ever likes to hear “at my previous airline I used to do things this way” – why should we then be hearing “at my previous airline I used to make this and that much” – what’s the point? That’s history, let’s move on…
How is that benefitting anyone except you? I got a newsflash for you... it's not even benefitting you. Quite the contrary, it's undercutting you.... because you get a guy with say, equal or similar experience working for a fraction of your pay. When I flew at my old airline, and saw UAL/USAir furloughees flying the same airplane I was for literally 30% of what I was making simply because of date-of-hire, I felt nauseated. I was senior... but I saw that as a threat to my job.
I wouldn’t say it’s benefiting me or anyone else… Should we improve the initial pay rates – absolutely! Should new hires use a different pay scale just because of where they used to work before – no, I don’t thinks that’s right…
Utopian? Can I ask if you've ever traveled outside of the United States? Have you traveled on foreign airlines? Have you seen any employment contracts for pilots working for foreign airlines?
Sure you can, in fact you just did…
Born and raised in Europe, lived in 3 European countries before the US… I fly international trips quite often and have flown commercially on numerous international airlines… Singapore Airlines being my top choice… As far as foreign airlines, not sure why it matters but one of my friends is laid off from JAL; I know several pilots flying for Cathay, Emirates, ANA and of course numerous European carriers…
I dread traveling on US airlines for a number of reasons... one of the biggest reasons is that the focus on customer is long gone. When I travel internationally either on vacation or to get to my plane, I avoid US airlines like the plague. Let's see... nice, smiling, pleasing-on-the-eyes flight attendants with great customer service skills, and enthusiasm for the job or cranky old b*tches who are flying international because they've been at it for 50 years and you as a customer should consider yourself lucky to get a cup of Coke? Why is that? Look no further - UNIONS.
I agree with everything you’ve said here except I put the blame mainly on the political correctness in our country… The ACLU mentality is killing the customer service, not the unions… (although I do agree that sometimes the unions defend some of our members who probably do not deserve do be defended)
Absolutely, unions are so 19th century. They served their purpose... now they're just dead weight.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree… I think you’re in favor of what the Russians call the “Wild West Capitalism” whereas I’m in favor of a capitalistic system where the needs of the employer and the employees are equally important… Ideally you want a balance between the two…
I feel that our views are so opposite that maybe we should simply agree to disagree?
I’ll keep enjoying my “seniority” driven career while you will enjoy your “performance” driven profession and hopefully we both can stay happy?