To make it clear we do have a contract, each person has an individual contract with the company, we just dont have a CBA and/or a union. And yes we will see our retro pay in the Oct 20th paycheck. And the union was voted down because the pilots felt managment was telling the truth when they said they will fix the pay and work rules, and so far they are keeping to there word, 10 months later we have industy average pay on the 320 and Industry Leading pay on the E190, and more and better work rules to go with it. And every pilot knew that if they did not keep to there word and fix it they could always vote in a union next year. I am personaly very glad the way the prosses has taken shape, because if the union would have been voted in we would have been locked in to our old payrates and work rules until we had a CBA and that could have taken years, this way we have the new pay and work rules and if we choose to vote in a union next year we will be locked into these new rates and rules while the CBA negotiations go on.