Originally Posted by
BIRDIE
Thanks for your responses.
The reason this issue came up is because some SIDS have rather demanding climb gradients. Should one lose an engine, these gradients are often impossible. I understand that engine failure and TERPS are independent. TERPS is for all engines operating. With an engine failure, responsibility lies with the operator.
With charter operators and perhaps with fractional operators, airport analysis (AC 120-91) is cost prohibitive. So I was wondering, as long as I can achieve 3.3% could I still fly the SID and remain clear of obstacles, even if the SID required a steeper climb gradient, presumably for ATC reasons.
Birdie, you are a frustrating OP. If there is anyone who can help me explain it, then please chime in as I am always willing to learn new tricks. But, Birdie, if you don't like the answers you get, then please, do the research yourself. Here's a link to United States TERPS and Changes 1-19. Good luck with that.
8260.3B Chgs 1-19 United Standard for Terminal Instrument Procedures (TERPS) [Changes 1-19]
In the one post I mistyped and there is an error. The government plates use an * for minimum climb gradients (obstacles) and the dagger for ATC climb gradients. Reference Nellis AFB. But they don't always use this symbology. On other charts they clearly write out what is required for obstacle and ATC requirements. Reference Salt Lake City. Additionally, they will have the proverbial trouble T (a fat looking T symbol) in which the user is expected to reference the takeoff minimums page and read what is required. This is also where you find ODPs. Reference LaGuardia.
I think the US Government is moving away from the * and daggers and are clearly writing the text like Jepps does.
http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0909/00227DREAM.PDF Nellis
http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0909/00365TWINFALLS.PDF Salt Lake City
http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0909/NE2TO.PDF LaGuardia Minimums (see NewYork)
http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0909/00289LAGUARDIA.PDF LaGuardia 1
http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0909/00289LAGUARDIA_C.PDF LaGuardia 2
http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0909/00289LAGUARDIA_C2.PDF LaGuardia 3
I disagree with you. TERPs requirements are to be met even with OEI (one engine inoperative) unless you've been authorized to go lower -- which I believe requires you to have an approved emergency escape procedure or special departure procedure. Airlines don't take off knowing that if they lose an engine, they just killed everyone. Additionally, some operators are allowed to operate at much heavier weights which allow them to meet the required climb gradients all engines, but use the SDPs for when they lose an engine.